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Old 12-02-2002, 10:09 AM   #1
IggDawg
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Question Borla headers or S-AFC?

I'm looking at 300-ish to blow on christmas goodies. Would it be best to get a AFC or just headers? I'm thinkin the AFC wouled be the best way to go, but headers sound like a good idea too. Also, I'm going turbo eventually, and IIRC a AFC is good to have around for that. What do y'all think?

-IggDawg
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Old 12-02-2002, 10:44 AM   #2
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if you are going turbo, get the S-AFC....
if you are going N/A, get the headers....
I have both btw

~Brian
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Old 12-02-2002, 11:00 AM   #3
IggDawg
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Risking sounding like a n00b... Which one will give me the most gains if I'm stock other than intake? God... it hurt even to ask. Normally I'd side with headers, but from what I know our WOT runs a pitiful fuel map, and with a 3 inch intake, 3 inch airbox mod, and TB mod, I'm thinking a modified fuel delivery might benefit me a little.

-IggDawg
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Old 12-02-2002, 11:13 AM   #4
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Actually, unless you like sound the Borlas are not worth the $$ (they are the lowest power producing scooby header). The S-AFC will help somewhat (couple of ponies) unless you're pretty highly modded (or having A/F problems like leaning out). For similar money you could look at a flywheel or clutch or pullies. The S-AFC is a good idea for larger boost applications but for smaller (RHB5, TD03 <6 psi) a RRFPR, parallel fuel rails and a walbro pump usually do the trick nicely. One other thing to consider especially if you're going turbo would be an ITC, more control over the timing = good! Plus the OE ECU doesn't "learn around" timing adjustments.
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Old 12-02-2002, 11:26 AM   #5
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I would say SAFC, but then you will need a way to tune the SAFC, you cant just punch in some settings. Do you have an EGT and A/F gauge? Or an AWD dyno close to have it tunned?

I too feel the headers just make noise, I dont think anyone has gotten any substantial gains from headers on a scooby.

Jay McDade
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Old 12-02-2002, 04:00 PM   #6
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Between Headers and AFC: headers. If you think Borla headers won't do much, AFC won't do squat if all you have is an intake, especially if you have no way to tune it (i.e. an A/F gauge, EGT gauge and an AWD dyno). Stock ECU can handle the mixture just fine. In fact, there really isn't all THAT much to tune A/F-wise even with a full aftermarket exhaust and intake. If anything, my car was running too rich.
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Old 12-02-2002, 04:01 PM   #7
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That's why I suggested an ITC, more to be gained than tweaking air/fuel mix. You may also consider [flame suit on] a ProECM. I have one, you can read my review on scoobymods.com but I can say it was $$ well spent... and rumor has it there is a new firmware update (v3.0) coming out real soon. [/flame suit on]
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Old 12-02-2002, 04:09 PM   #8
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I've got the ProECM too, and like it as well. In fact, I bought one, gave it to a friend, and then bought another.
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Old 12-02-2002, 04:22 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Silverscooby27
I've got the ProECM too, and like it as well. In fact, I bought one, gave it to a friend, and then bought another.
Can I be your friend

-IggDawg
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Old 12-02-2002, 05:00 PM   #10
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Point was that if the question was, "Would I buy it again", the answer would be "yes".

How many Iggpoints would the ProECM be worth?
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Old 12-02-2002, 08:47 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Silverscooby27
How many Iggpoints would the ProECM be worth?
eleventy bajillion...

boy, how and where can we get a firmware upgrade?
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Old 12-03-2002, 12:58 AM   #12
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This was my exact quandry. S-AFC or Borla Headers. I had just put on my 3" intake and Apex'i N1 Exhaust. Either way I had planned on getteng the other soon. I went with header. Now I have to buy the CEL fix. Anyone know if I'll still pass emissions after putting on the CEL wire in fix? Will the ITC be a better idea for my next purchase? What kind of gains will it produce in comparison with the AFC? I have heard about our computers learning around the S-AFC's anyways. I just need to find a place for all these gadgets on/in my dash...hehe.
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Old 12-03-2002, 09:35 AM   #13
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Danz, not sure if v3.0 will fit into the ProECM box or if its just a new chip release... trying to get more info from the company.

The ITC will allow timing control which is a must have for tweaking power and a must have if you may go F/I in the future. The ProECM provides timing control and fuel trim modification but it is not user tunable. Price wise the S-AFC and the ITC are both more expensive than the ProECM/TC-II but they are user programable (and have bling bling factor). Yes, the 00+ ECUs will learn around the S-AFC but, realistically, you're only going to see a couple of ponies anyway (unless you have some serious mixture issues). I'm also trying to ferret out the details on the Greddy Emanage and why it has not worked with the subaru ECUs b/c for the money it is by far the most promising piggyback out there.
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Old 12-03-2002, 09:40 AM   #14
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well in any event, the headers don't do a heck of a lot either do they? I'm looking mostly for sound a little bit nicer of a high end.

-IggDawg
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Old 12-03-2002, 09:52 AM   #15
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Igg, I've got a complete custom exhaust (headers, high flow, cat back) that only cost me ~$300 including muffler. PM me if you want more details on how to have one made locally.
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Old 12-03-2002, 10:17 AM   #16
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if you're going FI, i would just save my money, and figure out what i need at that point in time. i would go ahead and get the headers...you'll see more of a gain than a SAFC alone (for now anyways), and at least they'll still be useful once you turbo the car (better spool up), unless you go the 'factory turbo' route, and need to swap the crossmember.

the chip would be a good choice as well as there really aren't any drawbacks other than having to run higher grade gas to take advantage of it...but if you're going FI, then you're going to need user control of your timing.
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Old 12-03-2002, 01:18 PM   #17
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the S-AFC was still useful at WOT on the 00-02's, which is where you'd want the adjustments made anyway.

I have also heard that the S-AFC can be used to reduce/eliminate the WOT bog caused by running uber-rich.

~Paul
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Old 12-04-2002, 01:37 AM   #18
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Well, search for some of Patrick Olsens threads, he gained around 7 HP from tuning his S-AFC.
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Old 12-04-2002, 11:32 AM   #19
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Joe, Patrick has i/h/e and cams....

Phil =)
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Old 12-04-2002, 02:23 PM   #20
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I thought that in a previous discussion it was proven that the whole ECU learning around the S-AFC was a myth. I don't remember the thread, but I am sure a search could bring it up.

-Wes
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