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Old 12-09-2002, 01:48 PM   #1
BlueRidgeAutoX
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Smile New RS Owner / Hot Set-Up?

I just purchased a 2001 2.5RS and joined this group. I have run SCCA Solo II for just over two seasons in a '97 Mustang Cobra (that I just sold). I was looking for informed opinions on best modifications for the Subaru to prepare it for STS (but I am still using the car as my commuter car). I would look at an intake, an ECU/chip, springs/struts/swaybars, and exhaust. I know that there are many posts in the past on these things seperately, but there is so much info in this group, I was hoping that experienced AutoXers would share the complete picture. Bu the way, I think I will stay with KYB AGX to keep the cost down (although I did have Koni's on the Mustang).

Also, since I am using this a s a commuter car, I was thinking of Bridgestone Potenza S0-3 PP (as opposed to the Falken Azenis "cheater tires"). The BFG gForce KD's may be better, but they cost so much. Anyone run on the Bridgestones?

Thanks,

Kyle
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Old 12-09-2002, 04:09 PM   #2
Fred
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In order of importance:

some kind of lap belt to hold you in place

tires - preferably Azenis (or whatever you're happy with...)

20mm rear swaybar

springs/ struts

stainless steel lines, good brake pads and fresh fluid

and to make it SOUND unbelievably good, Borla header and some sort of cat-back exhaust

Just my recommendations based on experience autocrossing my car.

Kevin Allen
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Old 12-09-2002, 05:36 PM   #3
nate49509
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Tires and sway bar are a must then start thinking about your struts and springs. I'm using kyb agx's with spt/eibach springs and have been doing pretty well. Also if you can aford the bfd kd's go with them its a better tire overall. I'm running bfg kdw and am having no trouble beating people with azenis.
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Old 12-09-2002, 05:49 PM   #4
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Default Re: New RS Owner / Hot Set-Up?

Quote:
Originally posted by BlueRidgeAutoX
I just purchased a 2001 2.5RS and joined this group.

Congrats...

I have run SCCA Solo II for just over two seasons in a '97 Mustang Cobra (that I just sold). I was looking for informed opinions on best modifications for the Subaru to prepare it for STS (but I am still using the car as my commuter car).


mine is my daily driver...so no issues there..



I would look at an intake

a good K & N will work here...just get rid of all the plastic...


an ECU/chip

Not legal in STS.....

springs/struts

Depending on how much money you want to spend here...springs are about $250....Struts are about 125 a corner...or you can go full blown coilover for the big Ducketts....


swaybars

get a 20-24 mm adj....for about $150 and get some decent endlinks to go along with it....

and exhaust

This is up to you....Headers can change...but you have to use the stock catpipe....From there back...its up to you also...


. I know that there are many posts in the past on these things seperately, but there is so much info in this group, I was hoping that experienced AutoXers would share the complete picture. Bu the way, I think I will stay with KYB AGX to keep the cost down (although I did have Koni's on the Mustang).

Also, since I am using this a s a commuter car, I was thinking of Bridgestone Potenza S0-3 PP (as opposed to the Falken Azenis "cheater tires"). The BFG gForce KD's may be better, but they cost so much. Anyone run on the Bridgestones?

Thanks,

Kyle [/b]

Enjoy....Hope that helps a little...

Scooby South STS61 MY00 RS
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Old 12-09-2002, 06:27 PM   #5
Patrick L
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Default Re: Re: New RS Owner / Hot Set-Up?

Quote:
Originally posted by Scooby South
an ECU/chip

Not legal in STS.....
Says who?!?!

You can do a ECU sway, like the LINK ecu, or piggyback systems. Read the rules. Plus I would wait till the new rules come out for 2003. There is talk about having the same rules as STX, except for the max wheels width and tire size and car allow in the class.
So I would wait.


Pat L.

Last edited by Patrick L; 12-09-2002 at 06:34 PM.
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Old 12-10-2002, 06:06 AM   #6
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Default Re: Re: Re: New RS Owner / Hot Set-Up?

Quote:
Originally posted by Top_Dog


Says who?!?!

You can do a ECU sway, like the LINK ecu, or piggyback systems. Read the rules. Plus I would wait till the new rules come out for 2003. There is talk about having the same rules as STX, except for the max wheels width and tire size and car allow in the class.
So I would wait.


Pat L.
STS Engine Rules....
# The engine management system parameters and operations may be modified only by the methods listed below. Any and all modifications must meet or exceed the applicable US DOT emissions standards for the year, make, and model of the car. These allowances also apply to forced induction cars, except that no changes to standard boost levels, intercoolers, or boost controls are permitted.

1. Reprogrammed ECU may be used in the standard housing.

So Who makes one of these for a RS???? just curious..


Traction control parameters may not be altered.

2. Electronic components may be installed inline between an engine's sensors and ECU. These components may alter the signal coming from the sensor in order to affect the ECU's operation of the engine management system. Example: fuel controllers that modify the signal coming from an airflow sensor.
3. Fuel pressure regulators may be replaced in lieu of electronic alterations to the fuel system. It is not permitted to electronically modify the fuel system AND replace a fuel presure regulator.
4. Ignition timing may be set at any point on factory adjustable distributor ignition systems.
5. VTEC controllers and other devices may be used which alter the timing of factory standard electronic variable valve timing systems.

All STS vehicles must comply with the Federal 49-state safety and tailpipe emissions test requirements as a minimum. The mass airflow sensor must remain in its approximate original location.


But you realize...of course...Unless I came up with the $$$ to protest...whos gonna know... BTW...A Link or Tech 2...Seems to me would be illegal...in MY understanding of the rules....Because thats "StandALONE"...not piggy back......So I Guess, Top Dog is right...since he does have National Experience....

STS Rules

Last edited by Scooby South; 12-10-2002 at 06:20 AM.
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Old 12-10-2002, 10:23 AM   #7
BlueRidgeAutoX
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Thumbs up

Thanks for the replies so far. I have gathered so far that the Borla headers are the way to go ahead of the cat, but I was wondering what people are running for cat-back. I know this is a personal thing, but I am looking for a deep throaty sound at idle that gets a little raspy at WOT and higher RPM(but not too much or into the buzzy catgegory). A little burble on throttle-off would be nice also. I do not want it too loud (have to think of the wife and neighbors).

This Chen guy has a a few clips on his site
http://csqconcepts.com/subaru/exhausts.html
and I kind of like the tone of the Stomung, but was wondering if you guys have experience with it...is it very loud?

Thanks,

Kyle
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Old 12-10-2002, 11:17 AM   #8
Fred
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I have the borla header and stromung cat-back exhaust. It sounds incredible - has the same growl of an open-exhaust WRX, except a little deeper and quieter. On REALLY long trips, like the one to Florida for the SE iclub challenge autox, it gets almost a little tiring, but it doesn't drone. without the header, it drones annoyingly, but with the header, it pulses and the tone lowers enough to make the sound bearable. The sound when engine braking through the 3000rpm area is the best of any 4 cylinder ever (my opinion, of course).

But, don't expect it to give you any advantage on the autox course - maybe at the dragstrip, but I've only raced there once. If you want to go fast at autox, spend the money on the tires and suspension first.

AND THE BEST MOD YOU CAN BUY IS AUTOX SCHOOL!!!
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Old 12-10-2002, 12:43 PM   #9
BlueRidgeAutoX
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Fred-

When I first started AutoX in a different region, the old-timers would say it's 80% driver, 20% car. I agree and have been to several regional schools, but nothing "professional". Also, "practice, practice, practice" and "there's no substitute for seat time" come to mind as good axioms.

I have also come to the understanding that hp isn't everything, especially for AutoX. I think I will be very happy with the suspension, size, and weight of the Impreza in AutoX, although I mill miss the raw power and sound of the Cobra on the street.

Thanks for the input on the Stromung.

Kyle
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Old 12-10-2002, 01:30 PM   #10
TheWRX
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Default Re: Re: Re: New RS Owner / Hot Set-Up?

Quote:
Originally posted by Top_Dog
You can do a ECU sway, like the LINK ecu, or piggyback systems.
I'm with Scooby South here. The way I read the rules, you can reprogram the factory ECU, or use a piggyback that modifies the inputs to the factory ECU. Everything else, like replacing the ECU, would be illegal.
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Old 12-10-2002, 08:48 PM   #11
Patrick L
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Quote:
1. Reprogrammed ECU may be used in the standard housing.
Yeah, but it does not say the stock ECU. It can be any reprogrammed ECU. as long as it uses the standard housing. The LINK can do that. As long as "All STS vehicles must comply with the Federal 49-state safety and tailpipe emissions test requirements as a minimum. The mass airflow sensor must remain in its approximate original location."
We in Oklahoma don't have an inspection or emmisions tests. Oh well.
I know of a place that will reprogram the stock ECU. The stock ECU can be reflashed.
The LINK is a little exspensive for my taste. So I'll stick with a ProECM or Torque Chip2. I didn't say the TEC 2 or 3 in my post. That really is not legal by the way the rules are worded. You could get a Unichip programmed for the RS. Cobb can do that.

Pat L.
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Old 12-11-2002, 09:18 AM   #12
BlueRidgeAutoX
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Cool

I guess I assumed I would need a new ECU/chip with the addition of the intake (to deal with the less restrictive nature = higher air/fuel ratio = possible detunation problems)...will the stock ECU handle the switch to a less restrictive intake on it's own? If that is the case, I will forgo the $$ and possible rules interpretation arguments. Any advice from those who have done intakes?
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Old 12-11-2002, 10:47 AM   #13
Fred
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You'll find lots of info in the Naturally Aspirated forum. I thought the Cobb intake sounded pretty cool at first, but it got old - VERY LOUD. A guy who sold his RS gave me his Ganzflow (which uses the stock airbox), and it has just the right volume, and flows slightly better than the stock tubes.

My recommendation - save your money and keep the stock intake.
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Old 12-11-2002, 06:57 PM   #14
ScoobyShak
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This is a good thread that I could maybe get some info from and give some info.

1st, Kyle, To answer your tire question.
I had auto-xed on the Bridgestone Potenza SO-2 PP which if I am not mistaken are the predecesor to the SO-3. They still make an SO-2 but not in the PP=(Pole Postion). They were a damn good tire for what you are looking for but I had them in a 17in size. Are you looking to put SO-3's on stockers or a 17in? I did not get a year out of them though. They are a relativley sticky tire and performed well at auto-xs and were actually really good in the rain on the street. Never auto-xed with those in the rain though,It just never rained at an event when I had these tires.

I currently run the BFG KD's on stock 99' wheels in the 205-55-R16
size. The next size up won't fit. I get rubbing with the 205-55. These are a trully amazing tire. I have had the opportunity to auto-x these in the rain and had set fastest time of the day with them in the rain. On dry they are just pure grip. Its close to an r-compound but r's are still the best for traction.I don't drive these on the street though because of the cost.But have once or twice and they are crazy in what you can hold on the street. These are the most expensive. But they are wearing really good. I used them for half a season and can deffinately get another year and half to two.

Now my questions to all.
It says in the rules for STS that you can update/backdate parts. Is it a legal move to install a rear LSD as in its an UPDATE I own a 99' no LSD.

An other question is a local vendor wouldn't mind be being kind of a guinea pig for the E-manage. But it can do air/fuel but also timing. The rules state though that you can't do both, correct?

Dan
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Old 12-11-2002, 07:24 PM   #15
Scooby South
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[quote]Originally posted by ScoobyShak
[b]This is a good thread that I could maybe get some info from and give some info.

1st, Kyle, To answer your tire question.
I had auto-xed on the Bridgestone Potenza SO-2 PP which if I am not mistaken are the predecesor to the SO-3. They still make an SO-2 but not in the PP=(Pole Postion). They were a damn good tire for what you are looking for but I had them in a 17in size. Are you looking to put SO-3's on stockers or a 17in? I did not get a year out of them though. They are a relativley sticky tire and performed well at auto-xs and were actually really good in the rain on the street. Never auto-xed with those in the rain though,It just never rained at an event when I had these tires.

I currently run the BFG KD's on stock 99' wheels in the 205-55-R16
size. The next size up won't fit. I get rubbing with the 205-55. These are a trully amazing tire. I have had the opportunity to auto-x these in the rain and had set fastest time of the day with them in the rain. On dry they are just pure grip. Its close to an r-compound but r's are still the best for traction.I don't drive these on the street though because of the cost.But have once or twice and they are crazy in what you can hold on the street. These are the most expensive. But they are wearing really good. I used them for half a season and can deffinately get another year and half to two.

Now my questions to all.
It says in the rules for STS that you can update/backdate parts. Is it a legal move to install a rear LSD as in its an UPDATE I own a 99' no LSD.

Yes you can...but some say the open diff on a 99 has better transition and less understeer....Besides that...the only advantage I see with the factory LSD...is probably in the wet...

An other question is a local vendor wouldn't mind be being kind of a guinea pig for the E-manage. But it can do air/fuel but also timing. The rules state though that you can't do both, correct?

Again...its a matter of rules interpetation.....
You didn't mention if you were just going to do this locally...or go to the nationals....That would probably make a BIG difference on which way you went with the car....IMHO...

Bill
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Old 12-11-2002, 08:09 PM   #16
jmott
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azenis are the stickiest tire period.
I base this opinion on:

1. grassroots motorsports did some tests with it and it, on average, was faster than every other ST legal tire

2. look at the darn thing! feel it!

3. everyone at nationals that did well was on em

=)


Quote:
Originally posted by ScoobyShak
This is a good thread that I could maybe get some info from and give some info.

1st, Kyle, To answer your tire question.
I had auto-xed on the Bridgestone Potenza SO-2 PP which if I am not mistaken are the predecesor to the SO-3. They still make an SO-2 but not in the PP=(Pole Postion). They were a damn good tire for what you are looking for but I had them in a 17in size. Are you looking to put SO-3's on stockers or a 17in? I did not get a year out of them though. They are a relativley sticky tire and performed well at auto-xs and were actually really good in the rain on the street. Never auto-xed with those in the rain though,It just never rained at an event when I had these tires.

I currently run the BFG KD's on stock 99' wheels in the 205-55-R16
size. The next size up won't fit. I get rubbing with the 205-55. These are a trully amazing tire. I have had the opportunity to auto-x these in the rain and had set fastest time of the day with them in the rain. On dry they are just pure grip. Its close to an r-compound but r's are still the best for traction.I don't drive these on the street though because of the cost.But have once or twice and they are crazy in what you can hold on the street. These are the most expensive. But they are wearing really good. I used them for half a season and can deffinately get another year and half to two.

Now my questions to all.
It says in the rules for STS that you can update/backdate parts. Is it a legal move to install a rear LSD as in its an UPDATE I own a 99' no LSD.

An other question is a local vendor wouldn't mind be being kind of a guinea pig for the E-manage. But it can do air/fuel but also timing. The rules state though that you can't do both, correct?

Dan
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Old 12-11-2002, 09:53 PM   #17
ScoobyShak
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Oh yeah. I forgot to mention the Azenis but jmott brought up good points. I will most likely go with the azenis when the time comes. Because of how good they are and the price is nice.


Bill, Thanks for the info. I will be doing some national events and probably will be going to nationals in topeka. I was asked by my region to attend nationals but with work and school it didn't work out this year.
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Old 12-12-2002, 02:07 AM   #18
Gary (gg)
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Geez Pat give away all our secrets.

At Nationals there were a variety of suspensions on RS's.

DMS 40's and 50's
Tein HA and RA
KYB AGX with Eibach springs
Apexi coilover
Leda

The key is to get a matched set of struts and springs.
Steve, who finished 5th, ran with no swaybars.

Pat did really well with the Prodrive WR Sports at the 2001 Nationals.

On the power side, Borla header, catback exhaust, pulleys and intake.

Tires, get the Falkens first, they're cheap and real good in the cold, but not when its icy or snows. Use stock rims for now. Get the 205/55R16 and then if you get an another get the 215/45R16 for gearing on tighter courses.
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Old 12-12-2002, 09:03 AM   #19
BlueRidgeAutoX
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ScoobyShak, thanks for the info on the Bridegestones. I also ran KDs for a while on my Cobra and I believe that they are awesome, although a little noisy on the street. I bought them when I was doing AutoX in Detroit, where they have a seperate street tire class for every stock class (a great way to go if you have a large enough region; most of the competeition wa son street tires).

For the rest, thanks for your opinions on the Azenis. Although I have seen the GRM tests and I know that the top guys use them, they are low on my list for several reasons. First, I am a family guy and after our second daughter is born later this month, I am anticipating my time will be tight. With this in mind, one of the appeals to running STS is not having to take the time to change wheels twice for each event. So, I understand that the Azenis are very noisy and I have heard that they hydroplane easily. As I have a 140 mile a day commute, I am not sure I want to compromise with the noise and the safety. I also suspect that the Bridgestones will last longer, but I am not sure of that. I do not think I will be able to go to any CENDIV events this year and most certainly will not attend Nationals.

Thanks again to all for the input...keep it coming.

Kyle
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