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Old 12-13-2002, 09:07 AM   #1
cindergarden
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Default 2.2 n/a way

what do you guys think is the best mod route for a N/a eventually i want to turbo it in about a year or or year and half but the engine puts out 135hp and im looking for at least 175hp if possible.
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Old 12-13-2002, 09:32 AM   #2
99OBSter
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IHE = Intake, Headers, Exhaust. Well, if you have the single-port exhaust, then you can only buy borla headers.

I think there was a previous thread about this.
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Old 12-13-2002, 10:50 AM   #3
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IHE will pretty much not translate to a turbo kit unless the headers and exhaust are custom. I'd look at a cheap intake (so you won't feel so bad throwing it away later), cobb street cams (he should still have them for the 2.2), lightweight flywheel and upgraded clutch, 2.5" cat back (go custom, its much cheaper). With these mods you'll be in the neighborhood of 130 whp and 130-140 ft-lbs (which translates to 170-ish hp at the crank). The street cams will compliment the turbo nicely (added lift, little/no overlap), the clutch is required when upping hp and the flywheel will help get what you've got at the crank to the ground.
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Old 12-13-2002, 10:43 PM   #4
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yeah the IHE thing wont really go over to well with the later turbo but i think ill run a true cold ait to the fender all the cheap way, CAMS GEARS !! yeah never thought of lighter gears, maybe pulleys too , clutch and flywheel wait cause ihave to ge an AWD conversion done soon as well haha ive got the slutty 1.8 FWD that needs an entire new drivetrain to make me happy
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Old 12-14-2002, 01:17 PM   #5
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For all the stuff you're planning on doing, you should sell that car and get one that's AWD to start unless you want a $10,000 (cost)... $3,000 (what its worth to someone else) car.

If you are planning a turbo upgrade, you should go with a 2.2 turbo out of a Legacy or an EJ20 (JDM). You will be throwing your $ away if you bolt a turbo kit on to an n/a lower end with out building it up to handle the boost. They aren't strong enough to handle the boost of a turbo. People might say differently, but many of those are people who haven't actually turboed an n/a powerplant. Also, the compression ratio between the two are different .

I do agree with BOY about the lightened flywheel, better clutch, cams, custom exhaust, etc.. being good ways to generate good power out of a 2.2. Roller rockers out of a '96 Outback will give you about 12hp also. You could also drop a 2.5 in and start with 165hp. All food for thought... It's a good idea to add up how much all of the parts and labor will cost, before creating a giant, expensive, headache for yourself.
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Old 12-15-2002, 03:40 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by outback2.5HO
You will be throwing your $ away if you bolt a turbo kit on to an n/a lower end with out building it up to handle the boost. They aren't strong enough to handle the boost of a turbo. People might say differently, but many of those are people who haven't actually turboed an n/a powerplant.
I've always been under the impression the ej22 handles boost pretty well...I'll be turboing soon running 5 psi of boost and wasnt really concerned. Which parts do you think I'd have problems with? I know somebody whos had a turbo on a 1.8 with a stock bottom end for like 90,000 miles....

Josh
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Old 12-15-2002, 09:37 AM   #7
cindergarden
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im plannigna performance rebuild before i turbo it , the whole deal maybe a 2.5 head as well im not sure exactly when so i just need some power now from it sides the 135 it gives ... what difference will teh intake make if i get one now or later? wouldnt they be the same
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Old 12-15-2002, 03:12 PM   #8
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I would say just save your money for the turbo. Any sort of intake you go with will be useless for the turbo setup, however, if you went with headers and exhaust, you would be fine when you go turbo. However, you'll be hard pressed to get a true 175hp to the wheels with just simple bolt ons. However, If you're looking to pep it up without a turbo here's the mods I'd make:

Intake
Headers
Full exhaust/muffler
Lightened Flywheel
bored throttle body
maybe cams

It will make the car feel alot more peppy. But N/A performance costs alot more per hp than turbo. The above mods would probably cost as much as a simple turbo kit, and only yeild a third of the performance; not to mention there isn't much more you can do besides heavy head work to better the N/A setup. The turbo has alot more room to grow and it's easier to create a setup that suits your driving style.

-Brad
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Old 12-15-2002, 03:49 PM   #9
Kevin Thomas
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Default Re: 2.2 n/a way

Quote:
Originally posted by cindergarden
what do you guys think is the best mod route for a N/a eventually i want to turbo it in about a year or or year and half but the engine puts out 135hp and im looking for at least 175hp if possible.
Last I checked, I was able to purchase a 2.2ltr Legacy turbo longblock for around $850 from a shop in Cali. $200 to ship it to the East Coast and who knows the cost for installation. I started to do this but the shop that had my car had a hard enough time fixing simple problems.

The Legacy turbo is rated at what....165-167hp stock right? You'd be right at your goal with just the swap and it would probably be cheaper than just purchasing a turbokit.

Don't like that route? Here's a suggestion: Get your stock 2.2ltr injectors cleaned at RC Engineering (or another place you may trust), buy a higher flowing fuel pump, air/fuel ratio and EGT gauge, and get your heads o-ringed (is that the right term?).

I ran my car turbo'd/nitroused from 59k-110k without any problems *5psi of boost*. I only ran into a problem when a 2nd turbokit was put on. The inside of my engine looks great without any signs of detonation or fuel issues. *That was my 'old' engine btw* Dont' ask! Good luck!
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Old 12-15-2002, 10:46 PM   #10
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Legacyej22,

The main concern on an n/a lower end are the internals (rods, bearings, pistons) and the open deck design of the n/a vs. the closed deck of the turbo. Another factor is the difference in compression ratios (higher w/ n/a). It's just easier and cheaper to start with a turbo engine than trying to redesign an n/a engine to turbo specs... Yes, you can bolt on a turbo to ANY engine, that doesn't mean it was designed to handle the boost (2.5 is a good example). What you mentioned about the 1.8 lasting 90k is very impressive, but that is the exception, not the rule. If you keep the boost down at about 5psi (like Kevin Thomas) you will get better longevity than cranking it up to 12psi (or more). (Not trying to flame anyone) People with Turbo cars can be boost junkies, and boost controllers are common place. When you can crank a knob to get more boost, the consequences on the engine are not a factor, just going faster...
In short, whatever boost level guys start with on their cars, at some point is not enough, so start with an engine that can handle 20psi if you plan on running 8psi...

If you can get an ej22t or a JDM ej20 for less than $1500 complete you are way ahead of the curve. To build you engine to handle boost like the other two, you are looking at +-$2000 at least for the rebuild (w/out turbo), and that won't be o-ringing or closing the deck of the block...
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Old 12-16-2002, 07:49 AM   #11
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Well, I've thought long and hard about installing a turbo kit on my 2.2ltr, but I can't justify the $4000 or so for a bolt-on kit. At least not for a MY99 OBS! $4000+whatever the cost for an install and upgrade the internals would make a great down payment for a WRX, and you wouldn't have the "engine explosion" issues.

The EJ22 is a great engine, and will last forever, until you put a turbo on it.

Just my humble opinion.
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Old 12-16-2002, 09:46 AM   #12
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Everything in moderation. IF you go turbo the 2.2 should handle up to 10 psi safely (you'll need tons of engine management, injectors, fuel pump, etc) and last a good long time. Anyhting higher and its piston soup. I'll be running 5 psi or less when I install my custom turbo setup this January and, depending on how things come together, I may be up for 8psi at some point. Ideally, I'll run 3-5 psi on the street and up it to 8 psi for track duty. One thing I did learn from working with Trey Cobb on my never-came-to-fruition WRX build up (long story), I'll be carrying a bottle of octane booster in the car AT ALL TIMES, just in case detonation is heard. One bad tank of gas on an N/A motor usually means boom!
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