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Old 12-13-2002, 06:40 PM   #1
N/A01RS
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Question Changing/Modifying Turbo for AutoX

Would it be possible to have the stock turbo modified (ported, thermo coated, etc.) in STX or are you automatically bumped to SM?

So far Ive gathered that these power mods are STX legal...

Spark Plugs
Intake
Headers
Uppipe
Turbo-Back Exhaust
Modified ECU or Piggyback (no boost adjustment)
Lightweight/Underdriven Pulleys

Are there any other power mods known that can be installed legally in STX? Are any of these items legal...?

Fuel Rails
Coolant Hoses
Silicone Intake Tube
Silicone Intercooler Hoses
Upgraded top mount intercooler
Intercooler water spray
Aftermarket Clutch
Lightened Flywheel

Bear with me Im new to this
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Old 12-13-2002, 06:51 PM   #2
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Default Re: Changing/Modifying Turbo for AutoX

Quote:
Originally posted by N/A01RS
Would it be possible to have the stock turbo modified (ported, thermo coated, etc.) in STX or are you automatically bumped to SM?

So far Ive gathered that these power mods are STX legal...

Spark Plugs
Intake
Headers
Uppipe
Turbo-Back Exhaust
Modified ECU or Piggyback (no boost adjustment)
Lightweight/Underdriven Pulleys

Are there any other power mods known that can be installed legally in STX? Are any of these items legal...?

Bear with me Im new to this

Fuel Rails - ESP, fuel injection systems are unrestricted in ESP
Coolant Hoses - stock legal? can't see this being performance benefit
Silicone Intake Tube - STX legal
Silicone Intercooler Hoses - ESP
Upgraded top mount intercooler - ESP
Intercooler water spray - ??? just bring a sprayer bottle full of water
Aftermarket Clutch - ESP
Lightened Flywheel - ESP

Touching the turbo = SM
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Old 12-13-2002, 06:51 PM   #3
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I'm fairly new myself, but I think that any of the mods you list after your first group, including a upgraded/modified turbo would bump you up to SM.

Try reading the thread at the top of this forum, it may clear some of this up.

EDIT: I didn't see phil's post. Beat me to it!

Last edited by thechickencow; 12-13-2002 at 09:52 PM.
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Old 12-13-2002, 07:10 PM   #4
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apparantly i am pretty limited then. Due to my body kit ESP and DS are out. I guess my options are to either lower my performance goals considerably or go to SM and hang with the big boys.
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Old 12-13-2002, 07:51 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by N/A01RS
apparantly i am pretty limited then. Due to my body kit ESP and DS are out. I guess my options are to either lower my performance goals considerably or go to SM and hang with the big boys.
if you arent planning to win nationals

dont worry about it
do what you want to your car and have fun
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Old 12-13-2002, 08:45 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by thechickencow
I'm fairly new myself, but I think that any of the mods you list after your first group, including a upgraded/modified turbo would bump you up to SM.

Try reading the thread at the top of this forum, it may clear some of this up.
You will need far more than engine mods to be competitive in autocross. Nothing in your proposed mod list delt with suspension or brakes just power mods.

IMHO, if you want to be competitive, you need to figure out what to do in the handling department before you start adding more power to the loose nut behind the wheel
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Old 12-13-2002, 09:02 PM   #7
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Silicone Intake Tube - NOT STX Legal

"17.10.B Alternate air cleaner enclosures up to carburetor or throttlebody. This does not allow any changes to intercoolers. "

We can only swap the intake only because after the MAF, it doesn't go to a carburator or throttlebody, it goes to the turbo.

--kC
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Old 12-13-2002, 09:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by KC
Silicone Intake Tube - NOT STX Legal

"17.10.B Alternate air cleaner enclosures up to carburetor or throttlebody. This does not allow any changes to intercoolers. "

We can only swap the intake only because after the MAF, it doesn't go to a carburator or throttlebody, it goes to the turbo.

--kC

I sent Howard Duncan an email about that and he said it was legal for STX... unless he was completely confused by my email. Turbo/throttle body is no different. Not that I care about stx rules anymore, but I think you're wrong. Intercoolers are always located AFTER the turbo.
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Old 12-13-2002, 09:13 PM   #9
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He said Intake hose. I read it as from the intake to the turbo.

If it's the one that goes from the IC to the turbo... it's part of the turbo system and also cannot be touched. Howards said stuff before, and a protest committee didn't 'intrepret' the rule he told someone was legal the same way.

--kC
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Old 12-14-2002, 01:57 AM   #10
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wow, I actually DISagree with keith about a rule!

I read it as "Alternate air cleaner enclosures up to carburetor or throttlebody. This does not allow any changes to intercoolers. "

What this means IMHO is that you can change the intake all the way up to the throttle body, but in turbo cars you cannot touch the intercooler and any associated piping (and obviously the turbo), also there is a rule in there somewhere that states the MAF must remain in the same location.

This would IMHO make the silicone intake hose, that goes from the end of an intake to the turbo inlet legal.

-Tom
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Old 12-14-2002, 09:25 AM   #11
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I think the thing to realize is there is no "end of the intake". The end of the intake is the turbo like it is the throttle body on a N/A car...
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Old 12-14-2002, 12:12 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by trhoppe
also there is a rule in there somewhere that states the MAF must remain in the same location.

-Tom
No, this is what the rules says.

"The mass airflow sensor must remain in its approximate original location."

As for the piping. I think anything before the turbo should be ok. It's the piping that goes from the turbo to the intercooler that could get you protested.

Pat L.
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Old 12-14-2002, 02:42 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by trhoppe
wow, I actually DISagree with keith about a rule!

I read it as "Alternate air cleaner enclosures up to carburetor or throttlebody. This does not allow any changes to intercoolers. "

What this means IMHO is that you can change the intake all the way up to the throttle body, but in turbo cars you cannot touch the intercooler and any associated piping (and obviously the turbo), also there is a rule in there somewhere that states the MAF must remain in the same location.

This would IMHO make the silicone intake hose, that goes from the end of an intake to the turbo inlet legal.

-Tom
I'm with Tom on this one. You can change the airbox and the hose running INTO the turbo since we can't get to the TB.

As far as the MAF goes, that's all in the airbox so changing the intake hose has no bearing on the intake hose replacement.
Now, as far as CAI's and modified airboxes go you'll need to clarify the MAF placement as I see a conflicting opinion in a few posts. If Pat's (Top_Dog) statement is correct then just about any CAI will be legal, but if it has to be in the EXACT or SAME location then anything but the stock airbox is illegal.

Orion
#5 STX with stock airbox....

someday Tom will realize he doesn't want #5 STX as it's already taken....
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Old 12-14-2002, 05:50 PM   #14
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I'm right, you all are wrong I tell ya. Get out of my world!

OK for the intake pipe, I have no clue what I was thinking. You;re right. Any hoses after the turbo, to the IC and back to the turbo are not allowed to be replaced. k?

--kC
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Old 12-14-2002, 06:15 PM   #15
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As far as the intake pipe I was referring to the pipe that runs under the intake manifold between the intake and turbo. This piece is legal then, correct?

Heres some other stuff I havent been able to find clear answers on...

Master Cylinder Support Brace (made by MRT, reduces flex of master cylinder)
Aftermarket Radiator (C&R, Koyo, Fluidyne, etc.)
Eathing System (HKS, or custom)

are any of these Items legal for STX?
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Old 12-14-2002, 06:52 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Orion


I'm with Tom on this one. You can change the airbox and the hose running INTO the turbo since we can't get to the TB.

As far as the MAF goes, that's all in the airbox so changing the intake hose has no bearing on the intake hose replacement.
Now, as far as CAI's and modified airboxes go you'll need to clarify the MAF placement as I see a conflicting opinion in a few posts. If Pat's (Top_Dog) statement is correct then just about any CAI will be legal, but if it has to be in the EXACT or SAME location then anything but the stock airbox is illegal.

Orion
#5 STX with stock airbox....

someday Tom will realize he doesn't want #5 STX as it's already taken....
Orion, I accually can't find it in the rules. It doesn't matter where you put it. If it said it had the be in the exact place as stock. I could have protested a lot of cars in STS. Especially people with 98-99 2.5RS who put on a CAI, but it doesn't matter where it is.
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Old 12-15-2002, 10:53 AM   #17
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Top_dog is right, it says "approximate location" I was a little off in my post.

1) Master Cylinder Support Brace (made by MRT, reduces flex of master cylinder) - I would vote ILLEGAL, doesnt say it can be done
2) Aftermarket Radiator (C&R, Koyo, Fluidyne, etc.) - you could argue comfort and convenience, but I dunno, this would be a gray area because it falls under the "doesnt say it can be done, so its illegal" rule. If you are racing locally, go for it, but nationally don't worry about it. The stock system is perfect, its what gary runs in the USTCC, its been proven it works.
3) Eathing System (HKS, or custom) - what the heck is that??

One word of advice, go to www.streettouring.com, there is a link to rules in the bottom left. If it is not SPECIFICALLY listed in the rules, it is ILLEGAL

-Tom
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Old 12-15-2002, 11:03 AM   #18
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Earthing System = Grounding mod.

I can't remember if I had it on at Nats, but I don't think I did. It's performance benefit is zero, therefore I'd say don't waste your time. That's money that could be better spent elsewhere, and I'm not even 100% sure it's legal.

Master cylinder support brace is illegal. We had a thread abou tit a couple of months back. I can't remember why we determined it was illegal, so you may want to search for it.

As far as readiators go, I honestly wish we could replace them since I'm on my 2nd one in 30K mi. I'd rather spend $400 on a RELIABLE radiator than have to deal with the plastic OEM one separating again.
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Old 12-15-2002, 12:33 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by N/A01RS

Heres some other stuff I havent been able to find clear answers on...

Master Cylinder Support Brace (made by MRT, reduces flex of master cylinder)
Aftermarket Radiator (C&R, Koyo, Fluidyne, etc.)
Eathing System (HKS, or custom)

are any of these Items legal for STX?
Master Cylinder Support Brace (made by MRT, reduces flex of master cylinder)

no, ESP and above.


Aftermarket Radiator (C&R, Koyo, Fluidyne, etc.),

No SM or above.

basically for STX, you can do

1)engine management like unichip (vishnu stage 0 minus MBC) or a limited ECU reflash (as long as you don't touch boost or wastegate function)

2) exhaust. uppipe and turboback exhaust that has at least 1 CAT

3) struts including camber plates (front and rear). Can be adjustable in height and rebound and or dampening

4) swaybars front and rear

5) brake kits

For the WRX, the engine and drivetrain must remain stock. No clutches, no upgraded diffs, no flywheels, no intake, intercooler, yada,yada,yada...

If anything is not explicitly stated in the rules, or the rules that STX is derived from, then you cannot do that mod

here is a good reference for the STX rules
http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Rule...t_touring.html

But feel free to ask questions, threads like these are always interesting to read

Last edited by ChrisW; 12-15-2002 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 12-15-2002, 02:45 PM   #20
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Quote:
Earthing System = Grounding mod
mmmkay, I was wondering if thats what that was, or whether "Eathing" was something. As it came up with a couple of honduh websites on a google search.

Anyways, since I have my amp and subwoofer, I use a few additional grounding wires between my negative battery and chassis to prevent excessive blah blah blah blah blah. I run the grounding mod under "comfort and convenience"

-Tom
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Old 12-15-2002, 06:42 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisW
no intake
Intake is allowed in STX (17.10.B in STS rules).
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