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Old 12-17-2002, 10:16 PM   #1
MattDell
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Default Skoda shortens its' wheel base, too.

http://skoda.wrc-online.net/default....id=2&stid=1741



I really do think Subaru will follow suit, almost every manufacturer is going to smaller hatchbacks.
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Old 12-17-2002, 10:29 PM   #2
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I dunno, Suby is the quickest overall on gravel and especially in twisties. The Hatch is the ideal tarmac rally car shape though.
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Old 12-18-2002, 06:50 AM   #3
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Subaru does NOT have a hatchback except the Pleo and that's too small/light to even consider for WRC competition and it's not a world market car.

IIRC, Skoda went with the Octavia because when they entered WRC level rallying there was some confusion to the allowed specifications of the overall allowable dimensions of the car. The same thing happened with Seat and the Cordoba.

I hope Skoda can go faster with the Fabia. I love to root on the underdog teams!!!

-mykr.
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Old 12-18-2002, 07:59 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by mykrrrr
Subaru does NOT YET have a hatchback except the Pleo and that's too small/light to even consider for WRC competition and it's not a world market car. [/b]
Wanna bet that they just MAY within a year or two have a hatch? *cough*SVX*cough*. It's the name, but it doesn't have to look the same as the old one.

Yes, this is just an hypothesis.
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Old 12-18-2002, 01:59 PM   #5
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keep in minde body shape does not dictate wheelbase. the focus has a huge wheelbase, yet its a hatchback. the impreza is kind of in the middle, and its a sedan.
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Old 12-18-2002, 02:17 PM   #6
Subie Gal
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Actually.. the Pleo is Group N homologated and races around the world in competition... both gravel and tarmac....

the looks of the car can be deceptive...
research the wheelbase for all the different wrc cars
and you may be suprised what you learn -
quick search and i found.....

Citro Xsara Wheelbase: 2555 mm
Ford Focus WRC Wheelbase: 2615mm
Peugeot Wheelbase: 2468mm
Skoda Wheelbase: 2512mm
Subaru Wheelbase: 2535mm


Jamie
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SubieGal Rally Posters available now
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Old 12-19-2002, 07:29 AM   #7
mykrrrr
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67 mm difference in WB between the 206 & the Impreza doesn't seem that much to me.

Jamie - What's the wheelbase of the Pleo??? When I referred to Subaru not using the Pleo in competition I meant @ the WRC level. I've seen pics/videos of Pleo's (I think they were Pleo's) as rally cars.

-mykr.
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Old 12-19-2002, 12:02 PM   #8
Subie Gal
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http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Emjs/subaruk.html

Quote:
as a successor to the Vivio came the Subaru Pleo with a wheelbase of 231 cm
oh i love this page....

i want a Subaru Custom soooo bad!!!
(we never got em... )

cheers!
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Old 12-19-2002, 01:39 PM   #9
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All this talk about wheelbase is being blown out of proportion. Its simple, if its to long then a car generally will not be as nimble but it will be more stable. If its to short it will be out of control, remind you of the Audi S1. More then lenght goes into a car handling. Weight distrubution, suspension traval and design, the steering components. Its all a factor. Just cause a car's wheelbase is short or it's a hatch is not the deciding factor in making it a fast car.
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Old 12-19-2002, 02:09 PM   #10
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Default ...sell on Monday

I have to believe that the sales success of the Impreza, at least in North America, will be a heavy influence in staying with that platform. Subaru appears to be the only company that is able to leverage their motorsports program (well, maybe Audi, but that's stretching it). It's the old addage, win on Sunday sell on Monday.

In addition, it's not as if the Impreza is lagging behind. They've been competitive through most of the season on pretty much every surface.
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Old 12-20-2002, 12:23 AM   #11
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Default Skoda was a pig

The shorter car probably also means a lighter car, the Skoda was a pig of a car last season. havent found weight info yet
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Old 12-20-2002, 07:43 AM   #12
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The focus shell is bloody heavy, i looked at reshelling our Escort Cosworth into a Focus a couple of years ago. No way in hell!!

The Focus is a very safe car in a crash for a reason, it's got some huge chassis strengthening sections, especially around the front, forward of the struts. I guess you have forgoten about the weight saving programme ford carried out on the first generation Focus WRC, there was $500,000 worth of titanium and carbon in that car just to get it back to Escort WRC weight levels.

as stated earlier, wheelbases can be deceptive, the scoob is pretty much in the middle range. Where cars like the Focus and Peugeot gain is in polar moment of inertia, they have very short overhangs outside the wheelbase, helping them make fast direction changes. Where the scoob gains is in its centre of gravity location, with a light, low alloy engine in a longitudinal configuration, plus a central gearbox assembly, it scores very well compared to the Focus and 206.

It's remarkable these cars are running within a few 1/10s per mile when you think about how diferent they are.

I think the main front running car that will change the most next year will be the Mitsubishi, i expect that to look very diferent in its layout in 2004, with an Xtrack type longitudinal box, like the 206 and Focus.

One of the areas i think is not focused upon enough when talking about these cars is the suspension damping technology, the gains in this area pretty much outweigh any other in the last 5 years. It's all about getting the power down. It's mind blowing the diference a proper set of 3 way+ adjustable dampers can make, you can now tune the suspension to react diferently depending on the compresion speed and surface, if you get the settings wrong or damage a damper you are in big trouble.

Just look at the way they land after big jumps, it's like they are riding on air, amazing stuff.
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Old 12-20-2002, 10:36 AM   #13
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Default Re: Skoda was a pig

Quote:
Originally posted by rlly_wgn
The shorter car probably also means a lighter car, the Skoda was a pig of a car last season. havent found weight info yet
Despite it's size, the Skoda was down at the weight limit. Skoda has had problems with horsepower primarily.

John Felstead is right, when the Focus first came out it was extremely heavy, despite its relatively small size. Guess that's why Ford is getting this far of a jump start on development of the '05 car, so the same thing doesn't happen again.
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Old 12-21-2002, 07:22 AM   #14
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Actually Mitsubishi will not be back with anything at the WRC level next year. The rumor is they might be developing a nice version of the colt all wheel drive and turbo and they might run it in WRC in a couple years.
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Old 12-21-2002, 11:37 AM   #15
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you are so wrong with that one!

Mitsubishi are running the Lancer in 2003 on selected WRC rounds and WILL use it in 2004. If they decide to use the Colt, it wont be until 2005.
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Old 12-21-2002, 01:37 PM   #16
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The biggest reson to go to the smaller cars is, as has been mentioned several times in the commentary. Shorter legnth means the car can go more sideways on narrower roads, aka less likely to smack the trunk on something.
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Old 12-21-2002, 06:26 PM   #17
mykrrrr
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As always great commentary by Mr. Feldstead.

I also like how you brought up the suspension factor John. Very very true. I've got video of the Canadian championship and they did a side by side comparing an Audi S2 or whatever it's called run by Frank Sprongl & a Mitsu Lancer EVO 5 driven by John Buffam and Buffam actually had a quicker time through alot of the section despite the HP advantage of the Audi.

-mykr.
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