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Old 12-18-2002, 09:54 PM   #1
z&cobb
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Default generic stg 2 map and closed loop?

OK, I take it with version 2.5b you save your stg 2 map (that you ran with the original open loop program) back to the Utec.

Now you run closed loop with that map.

So, before you do any tuning, what power or torque curve advantages do you see?

Lets say you are at constant altitude, and you have done OK at 16.5 psi in the past, or adjusted the ABC to keep it there.

What do you see when you start to run closed loop? More power, more torque? Less, until you tune?

I guess I need to read the tuning manual.
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Old 12-19-2002, 03:34 AM   #2
peterex
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Be careful... You need to redo your boost map when switching from open loop to closed loop boost control--the boost maps use completely different values!!!!!
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Old 12-19-2002, 09:55 AM   #3
gossamer_monster
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Default Re: generic stg 2 map and closed loop?

Quote:
Originally posted by z&cobb


I guess I need to read the tuning manual.
Read the instruction manual, the tuning guide isn`t available yet.

Read and reread.

Bill
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Old 12-19-2002, 11:58 AM   #4
nmyeti
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Default Re: generic stg 2 map and closed loop?

Quote:
Originally posted by z&cobb
OK, I take it with version 2.5b you save your stg 2 map (that you ran with the original open loop program) back to the Utec.

Now you run closed loop with that map.

So, before you do any tuning, what power or torque curve advantages do you see?

Lets say you are at constant altitude, and you have done OK at 16.5 psi in the past, or adjusted the ABC to keep it there.

What do you see when you start to run closed loop? More power, more torque? Less, until you tune?

I guess I need to read the tuning manual.
1. Read the “changes in 2.5a” document.
2. boost is boost, and in no way does the motor reward you with more HP if you arrive at it from a "closed loop" system. The new boost control software is not some sort of magic bullet that will give you another 50hp. It only allows your boost to be consistent across various environmental changes.
3. Read the 2.5a manual again.

-Nathan
www.turboxs.com

Last edited by nmyeti; 12-19-2002 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 12-19-2002, 12:09 PM   #5
dwx
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Default Re: Re: generic stg 2 map and closed loop?

Quote:
Originally posted by nmyeti


1. Read the “changes in 2.5a” document.
2. There is no 2.5b software.
3. boost is boost, and in no way does the motor reward you with more HP if you arrive at it from a "closed loop" system. The new boost control software is not some sort of magic bullet that will give you another 50hp. It only allows your boost to be consistent across various environmental changes.
4. Read the 2.5a manual again.

-Nathan
www.turboxs.com
Actually, as you should probably be aware, 2.5b is the current software version... There was a bug in 2.5a that was fixed and a new version was posted to your website yesterday...

Phil
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Old 12-19-2002, 12:27 PM   #6
nmyeti
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Default Re: Re: Re: generic stg 2 map and closed loop?

Quote:
Originally posted by dwx


Actually, as you should probably be aware, 2.5b is the current software version... There was a bug in 2.5a that was fixed and a new version was posted to your website yesterday...

Phil
I edited my post almost as soon as I posted it...

I go out of town for one day and a whole new UTEC version is released. Go figure...

-Nathan
www.turboxs.com
posting while on vacation in New Mexico, getting ready to go snowboarding...
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Old 12-19-2002, 12:50 PM   #7
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I accidentally did this and was getting very low boost since open loop uses 0-100 and closed uses 0-500

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Old 12-19-2002, 01:20 PM   #8
z&cobb
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Quote:
Originally posted by MAD REX
I accidentally did this and was getting very low boost since open loop uses 0-100 and closed uses 0-500

Well, I guess that is a fortuitive "fail-safe."

Thanks to all for the comments.
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Old 12-20-2002, 09:54 PM   #9
WRXTom
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Default Stupid question re: closed loop

Hi folks. Hoping for a quick clarification on this.

When I change from UTec open loop to closed loop (0-500 scale) boost control do I:
- modify the open loop boost map by entering a value in EVERY cell in the boost map (including those that show "ECU" in the open loop map indicating stock ECU control below 60% TPS), or

- do I ONLY enter a value in the cells that previously had a numerical value (did not show the term ECU) under the UTec open loop boost control?


Thanks,
Tom
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Old 12-20-2002, 09:58 PM   #10
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Bump... I'm interested in the answer to this question...
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Old 12-21-2002, 01:05 AM   #11
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: generic stg 2 map and closed loop?

Quote:
Originally posted by nmyeti
posting while on vacation in New Mexico, getting ready to go snowboarding...
You know you could've made a jaunt over to the Big Island for snowboarding and then came back here to Oahu for the sunbathing, surfing, and tuning.

Pat
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Old 12-21-2002, 01:13 AM   #12
paul99se
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WRXTom: For starters you just need to enter closed loop values for the map points that had open loop values. See my other post in this forum on some possible starting values and strategies for building a closed-loop map.

You can spend time extending your maps to lower load points... but (IMHO) that is something to do once you have a great map from 60-100% load and when you have a lot of time to spend for smaller gains. (Because <60% is <10 psi... where, during most attempts at rapid acceleration, you spend <<1 second spooling past that point.)

-Paul

Last edited by paul99se; 12-21-2002 at 10:17 AM.
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Old 12-21-2002, 01:45 AM   #13
peterex
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Thumbs up

Wow, paul99se rules -- he's giving Nathan from TurboXS a run for his money when it comes to being helpful with the UTEC!
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Old 12-21-2002, 06:25 AM   #14
WRXTom
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Default

paul99se - thanks!

Between this and your post on building a closed loop map you have been a big help.

I assume this is the type of information that will be in the TXS "Tuning Guide".

As you get deeper into the tuning details please post them since the level of available detail is a little light.

Thanks again.

Tom
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Old 12-21-2002, 10:13 AM   #15
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I'm glad my posts have been helpful, but please remember that I'm just a user of the system.

PS: I edited my post below to provide more "why" info.
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Old 12-21-2002, 11:36 AM   #16
TheMadScientist
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Default switching to 2.5b question

Can I just load my open loop maps and run them? Does the 2.5b default to open loop or closed loop?
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Old 12-21-2002, 11:40 AM   #17
paul99se
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It defaults to open loop, so yes, you can just load up your old maps and roll.

Closed loop control is very cool though.

-Paul
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Old 12-21-2002, 10:21 PM   #18
dave_the_driver
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: generic stg 2 map and closed loop?

Quote:
Originally posted by gpatmac


You know you could've made a jaunt over to the Big Island for snowboarding and then came back here to Oahu for the sunbathing, surfing, and tuning.

Pat
Well, i'm sure glad Nathan came here instead of Hawai'i. We didn't have a dyno and i hope i didn't scare him too much when i had to exercise the brakes ... but we got it tuned conservatively (15 psi at 5200 feet on 91 octane ethanol gas), and that rotary switch i'm getting will be in no hurry to get installed ... that is, until i start shelling out for 101 octane gas. Thanks, Nathan!

David

P.S. The only problem we ran into was something that could cause problems for anyone else installing a UTEC after they did the 3/16" mod. We wasted almost an hour tuning down the maps for knocks because without knowing it we were running without any boost control at all.

When you do the 3/16" mod you stretch the hose to make it fit the connector. Well, the "Y" splice for the TurboXS boost control fitting into that hose popped off under pressure because the hose had been stretched. Without knowing it, we were running around at WOT with the "pulled hose" mode that drag racers use. Until Nathan realized why my boost was up to 0.13 or 0.14 MPa, the only boost control on the engine was the 20.5 psi boost cut in the UTEC.

If you install a UTEC (or anything else that involves connecting a MBC or bleed valve to the stock pressure lines) after doing the 3/16" mod, make sure you cut off the end of that stretched-out hose. Without trimming it, it'll pop off under pressure and you'll be in overboost very quickly. The boost was limited only by the turbo's capacity ... and the 5300 feet altitude. At sea level, it probably would have gone over 20 psi of boost. The UTEC detected some knocks and pulled timing ... just as designed. It didn't go over 1.4 MPa.

Last edited by dave_the_driver; 12-22-2002 at 02:09 AM.
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Old 12-22-2002, 02:57 AM   #19
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Dave,

Congrats on your new tune. Glad everything worked out ok. I can't tell you how jealous I am, though. To think what some folks like to do for vacation. Give me the beach anyday.
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Old 12-25-2002, 02:49 AM   #20
Redleader
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Default

Quote:
I accidentally did this and was getting very low boost since open loop uses 0-100 and closed uses 0-500
I overboost in either closed or open loop.

I still have the stock T fitting and the Y fitting provided by TurboXS in, but not the white female to female connector or the small brass tube. Does that mean I have sorta done the 3/16" mod?

Quote:
When you do the 3/16" mod you stretch the hose to make it fit the connector. Well, the "Y" splice for the TurboXS boost control fitting into that hose popped off under pressure because the hose had been stretched. Without knowing it, we were running around at WOT with the "pulled hose" mode that drag racers use. Until Nathan realized why my boost was up to 0.13 or 0.14 MPa, the only boost control on the engine was the 20.5 psi boost cut in the UTEC.
Maybe that explains my overboost problem?

Thanks, Mitch
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