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Old 12-19-2002, 12:19 PM   #1
HoRo1
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Question What the heck is up with Jacques Villeneuve?

Get this has-been out of F1. The amount of whining about Schumacher and Ferrari spouting from this wanker is annoying. After his sorry-assed performances last year I assume that he'll be returning part of his million dollar a month salary - I think not. Why doesn't he spend his energy on trying to make his team more competitive, either that or bugger off back to Canada and try his luck back where the motorsport's second stringers run - CART and/or IRL.
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Old 12-19-2002, 12:37 PM   #2
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Yeh he does whine a lot. Panis from memory also out qualified hin on numerious times as well.
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Old 12-19-2002, 12:48 PM   #3
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Hate to disagree with you but he is not a has-been. In a competative car he'd be right at the front. I agree whole heartedly that his time at BAR has been an utter waste of time and money on BAR's part...) but you can't blame a driver for being paid too much..that's mismanganement on the team's end.

Villnueve's career stats speak for themself.
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from Austosport.com
1997 Jacques delivered the championship he had promised since his entry into Formula 1 in 1996, but it was not without a fight. After winning the first few rounds in the superb Williams-Renault FW19, team and driver faltered as a rise in form by Ferrari and Michael Schumacher coincided with Williams deciding to concentrate its attentions on the new 1998 regulations. However, Villeneuve raised his game and came back superbly with wins in Austria and Luxembourg to take him right back into contention. At the season finale in Jerez, Schumacher appeared to have the legs of Villeneuve, but the Canadian dug deep and with 10 laps to go was right with Schumacher. As Villeneuve attempted to overtake, Schumacher blatantly attempted to ram the Williams, but only succeeded in putting himself out. Nursing his car home to finish third, Villeneuve took the podium and the title with seven wins and 81 points.

1996 Villeneuve rocketed into Formula 1 with Williams-Renault, the dominant team, and signalled his intent by taking pole on his very first Grand Prix at Albert Park, Melbourne. He led team mate Damon Hill for the majority of the race, before an oil leak forced him to drop back to second. However, by round four at the Nurburgring, Villeneuve had chalked up that first victory, and set about chasing down team mate Hill's championship lead. The 25-year-old stunned the F1 establishment with the overtaking manoeuvre of the season, passing Michael Schumacher round the outside of the 180degree Parabolica at Estoril to score a fantastic win. He kept Hill in sight until the last around of the season, but a wheel failure threw him into the barriers and the runner-up spot. Nevertheless, team boss Frank Williams had seen which way the wind was blowing, and favoured Villeneuve to win him the championship the following year, while Hill went to Arrows.

1995 Villeneuve entered his second year of CART once again with Barry Green's eponymous team. This was the last time the Indianapolis 500 was part of CART, and Villeneuve entered his name on the history books by winning it the youngest driver ever to do so on his way to the CART title. He racked up 172 points with four wins and a bevy of podium places, to beat Penske's Al Unser Junior into second place. By the end of the year, he was amassing thousands of kilometres of Formula 1 experience with Williams-Renault, ready for an assault on the F1 title the following year.

1994 Villeneuve stepped up to the top-flight with the team he had raced in Formula Atlantic, Player's Forsythe-Green. He soon gained a reputation for overtaking where nobody thought it possible, and scored his first win at the demanding 4.08 mile Elkhart Lake circuit in Wisconsin. He narrowly missed out on victory in the Indianapolis 500, trailing Al Unser Jr's Penske Mercedes over the line by metres. He finished the season sixth overall and rookie of the year, now a recognised star of the sport.

1993 Villeneuve's career was now in full flight, and undertaking a full season of Formula Atlantic with a team set up around him by Barry Green, Jerry Forsythe and manager Craig Pollock. The outfit secured backing from tobacco brand Player's, and Villeneuve was ready to go racing. He scored five wins in the category and was rookie of the year, finishing a very respectable third in the overall standings. Player's Forsythe-Green took the bold step of entering Villeneuve in the full-blown IndyCar (now CART) series for 1994 rather than opting for a second year in the feeder category.

1992 After an inconclusive few seasons in Italian Formula 3, Villeneuve moved to Japan where the results proved more forthcoming. He finished second in the All-Japan F3 series, with three wins under his belt. However, it was a one-off ride in Formula Toyota Atlantic that showed the way for Villeneuve's future career, when he scored a podium place in the Player's Grand Prix de Trois-Rivieres. A regular ride in the Toyota Atlantic series was the result, and Villeneuve has not looked back.

Pre-1992 Villeneuve decided to start a career in racing relatively late in the day compared to some of his peers. Son of the legendary Gilles Villeneuve, it took some time for the young Jacques to persuade his elders that such a dangerous career path was the one he should follow. He missed out karting altogether and first stepped into a race car at the age of 18, with a series of Formula 3 in Italy. Possibly due to his lack of racing experience, Jacques didn't make much of an impression in his first three seasons of racing, but a move outside of Europe for 1992 proved the way to go, and allowed Jacques to develop his aggressive style that is now so familiar.
We'll see how he does in 2003. If the BAR has any competativeness in it I think you may be quite surprised.

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Old 12-19-2002, 12:53 PM   #4
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If you put Villeneuve in a Ferrari, Schumacher wouldn't have a chance.
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Old 12-19-2002, 01:08 PM   #5
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There are a lot of great drivers out there, and Villenueve can certainly drive. Otherwise, he wouldn't have won in F1 and CART. However, M. Schumacher has changed what it takes to be a consistent F1 winner. You need to be a leader in your team, and have the whole team work for you. That's what it takes to be a F1 winner these days. Putting Villenueve or anybody else in the Ferrari and he may win a few races, but not for 3 years straight.

-Ray
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Old 12-19-2002, 01:34 PM   #6
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True Schumacher has significantly raised the bar for other drivers, but Villnueve did successfully lead Williams to two titles in 1997, and almost took the title in 1996 as a rookie.

I really do think he is easily one of the four best drivers in F1 right now (the others being Schumacher, Montoya, and Kimi). In the right car he'd be just a dominant.

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Old 12-19-2002, 03:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisW
If you put Villeneuve in a Ferrari, Schumacher wouldn't have a chance.
Wrong!
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Old 12-19-2002, 04:00 PM   #8
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if I recall, back when ferrrari had an inferior car, it was a very very close season.

I don't see how schumacher could ever 'not have a chance'

he drives pretty close to the theoretical optimum.


Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisW
If you put Villeneuve in a Ferrari, Schumacher wouldn't have a chance.
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Old 12-19-2002, 04:02 PM   #9
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what's so wrong with a driver airing his opinion on what others did? pretty much most of them do that all the time anyway

as far as putting JV and MS together in Ferrari and compete, we don't know who will come out better, because it hasn't happened yet... so dont go right or wrong on this one

-arthur
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Old 12-19-2002, 04:14 PM   #10
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as for Panis outqualified JV, yes it happened, but the overall edge still goes to JV if you look at their 2 years together... mind you that Panis is an underrated driver

do i think JV is worth what he's paid for? nope, not based on what he was able to do for BAR these years. but like someone already mentioned, it's the management's problem for paying him that much...

i do have to agree that MS is the best leader a team can want, because in addition to being one of the best drivers, he helps the team to develop and move forward... but remember that he does have the help of Todt, Brown, and the whole Ferrari team behind him... might as well rename it from Scuderia Ferrari to Schumacher Ferrari... too bad BAR's management team was too busy fighting each other and being arrogant than trying to get behind JV and get him a good car

-arthur
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Old 12-19-2002, 09:11 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisW
If you put Villeneuve in a Ferrari, Schumacher wouldn't have a chance.


You're kidding, right? In '97, with an inferior car, Schumacher took the championship right down to the last race, even ramming Villeneuve (Schumacher had a one-point lead ) in an attempt to take both cars out, and win the title.

Schumacher is, at present and for the foreseeable future (until Kimi gets it together) the best driver in F1. Put him in an identical car with anybody else on the grid, and he'd still win. There is always the odd weekend, like Austria last year, where he isn't quite on the pace, but don't kid yourself...nobody is as good as Schumacher is, especially Villeneuve.

Kevin
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Old 12-19-2002, 09:54 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by gtguy




You're kidding, right? In '97, with an inferior car, Schumacher took the championship right down to the last race, even ramming Villeneuve (Schumacher had a one-point lead ) in an attempt to take both cars out, and win the title.

Schumacher is, at present and for the foreseeable future (until Kimi gets it together) the best driver in F1. Put him in an identical car with anybody else on the grid, and he'd still win. There is always the odd weekend, like Austria last year, where he isn't quite on the pace, but don't kid yourself...nobody is as good as Schumacher is, especially Villeneuve.

Kevin
Give credit where credit is due. MS is the best right now. It is no coincidence that Ferrari is where they are right now. Just look at Schumi's driving early in his career when he was battling Senna and Prost in an inferior car. Do you think he got worse? He is at his peak right now, and as much as I hate to say it, he's the best there is right now.

JV? He'll be lucky if any of us remember him in 20 years. He'll never be as good as his dad.
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Old 12-20-2002, 05:34 AM   #13
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I think the real point here is not that JV whines too much but what Ferrari has done to F1. I wont get into the whole team orders debate but I believe JV has good intentions when he speaks his mind and he is looking at the big picture for F1.

To be honest I cant believe JV has spent that much time with BAR. Driving such an uncompetitive car for so many years must finally be making him go mad.

JV has always been outspoken and I'm glad someones got the guts to say something! Hes got lots of character and F1 needs more guys like him... kudos to him..

He has done his part at BAR and more. Its time for the team to step up with a reliable engine... there is a reason why he makes whatever 20 mil a season.

Personally id love to see JV return to champ car.. give the series some more star appeal..
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Old 12-20-2002, 06:57 AM   #14
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I wonder what'd happen if you threw JV in a Subie WRC03 and pointed him at a rally special stage and handed him Nicky Grist as a co-driver
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Old 12-20-2002, 11:50 AM   #15
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Default Re: Exactly

Quote:
Originally posted by AUTOwrXER
JV? He'll be lucky if any of us remember him in 20 years. He'll never be as good as his dad.
Any man who wins the CART title, the Indy 500, and the F1 World Championship will not be "forgotten in 20 years", get serious. Only Mario Andretti and Emmerson Fittipaldi have managed the same.

It's difficult to compare Gilles with Jacques, they're very different drivers, but I do agree, Gilles is ultimately the faster of the two.

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Old 12-20-2002, 11:59 AM   #16
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Quote:
Ferg
quote:

Originally posted by AUTOwrXER
JV? He'll be lucky if any of us remember him in 20 years. He'll never be as good as his dad.




Any man who wins the CART title, the Indy 500, and the F1 World Championship will not be "forgotten in 20 years",
get serious. Only Mario Andretti and Emmerson Fittipaldi have managed the same.

It's difficult to compare Gilles with Jacques, they're very different drivers, but I do agree, Gilles is ultimately the
faster of the two.

Ferg
Huh! Gilles faster than Jacques? I assume that this is a joke. Gilles was known for consistently overdriving, something that looks good, but ultimately does not get you anywhere - as his record in the big league proves.
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Old 12-20-2002, 12:13 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ferg


Any man who wins the CART title, the Indy 500, and the F1 World Championship will not be "forgotten in 20 years", get serious. Only Mario Andretti and Emmerson Fittipaldi have managed the same.

Emmerson Who?!?

Villeneuve is a has been. Everyone at the Montrael Gran Prix who was Canadian was in serious denial, but they guy is just not on the edge. I think to shut him up, they should make Schumacher race the Minardi car w/ Yoong and win the driver and manufacturer championship anyway.

Michael is not an average driver in an amazing car - it's a dynasty becuase he's an amazing driver in an amazing car. Remove driver aids? Schumacher wins, Add more driver aids? Schumacher wins. You have to give it to the guy, he's really the best driver since Senna and Fangio. JV needs to retire to the Yukon and call it a life.
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Old 12-20-2002, 01:34 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by HoRo1
Huh! Gilles faster than Jacques? I assume that this is a joke. Gilles was known for consistently overdriving, something that looks good, but ultimately does not get you anywhere - as his record in the big league proves.
No joke. Faster doesn't mean better. Jacques is certainly the more complete driver, but it terms of outright speed I still say Gilles would have had the upper hand.

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Old 12-20-2002, 01:35 PM   #19
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Originally posted by mtb_dude
Emmerson Who?!?
Yeah, so I hit the "m" key twice by accident

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Old 12-20-2002, 01:59 PM   #20
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Sorry for the bluntness, but if Jacques were killed in a F1 car (preferably during the Canada Grand Prix) right after his F1 champion season, then he'd be forever regarded as one of the greatest F1 drivers, or at least right up with his dad. That's often the irony of the car racing business.

-Ray
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Old 12-20-2002, 03:22 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ferg


Yeah, so I hit the "m" key twice by accident

Ferg
Oh dude, no I was joking about the fact that Emerson is just a suit now, I didn't even realize his name was spelled wrong.
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Old 12-20-2002, 04:00 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by mtb_dude


Oh dude, no I was joking about the fact that Emerson is just a suit now, I didn't even realize his name was spelled wrong.
He is easily forgotten since the second half of is F1 career was spent at the back (when it ran) in the Copersucar...

He was the youngest ever World Champion in 1972, and won it again in 1974. No slouch.

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Old 12-20-2002, 04:45 PM   #23
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It takes more than a good driver to WIN, MS help make Ferrari what it is. What has Jacques done with his team as a lead driver. Nothing. Except Whinge.
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Old 12-20-2002, 08:08 PM   #24
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emmo, F1's greatest set of sideburns.

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Old 12-22-2002, 06:48 PM   #25
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the only way to find out who's a faster driver is to put both MS and JV in Williams or McLaren and let them race head-to-head... note that you cannot put them both in Ferrari because the car is surely built to suit Schumacher's style

actually, while we are at it, might as well do the same with any combination of MS, JV, Fisichella, Button, Montoya, and Kimi what's the point then of arguing who's faster than who? since the only thing we can see is accomplishments. sure, some of that is due to luck, some not

Quote:
It takes more than a good driver to WIN, MS help make Ferrari what it is. What has Jacques done with his team as a lead driver. Nothing. Except Whinge
i agree with the first part of that statement. but like i already said, MS did not and could not have done it alone. i'm a big JV fan, but i do admire how Schumacher's ability to get everyone to work FOR him, and him only

and it wasn't entirely fair to say that for JV either, since you'd never know what would have happened if there was none of that political struggle between Polloc and Reynard, and that they had more brains and had hired a decent technical director to begin with

-arthur
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