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Old 05-25-2001, 08:35 AM   #1
pottsie350
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Question EJ22E Open Deck? Big Picture warning

Ok I've been trying to find as much info on this as I can. Every thing I've found so far leads me to believe that all the EJ22E engines use partially closed decks. Now I may be wrong, I haven't ripped the head off of my eninge to take a look yet. I do have a service bulletin at the house that a friend gave me which shows the 98 or what is supposed to be the 98 EJ22E block with the head off, and it looks nothing like the open deck on the EJ25 motors.

Here are the diagrams from AllData shop management systems.

This one is of the 98 2.2 EJ22E motor.


<IMG SRC="http://www.ac.cc.md.us/~david/2.2-98.jpg" border=0>

This one is of the 98 EJ25D or G I'm not sure which.

<IMG SRC="http://www.ac.cc.md.us/~david/2.5.jpg" border=0>

These links also list the 89~94 Legacy Turbo motor as an EJ22E and not an EJ22T, which I hear so many references to. I can't find any reference to an EJ22T in any shop manual or parts lists.
http://www.rebuiltengines.com/free.html http://www.fred-jones.com/engines/subaru_engines.htm http://www.atkengines.com/catalog/subaru.htm

I do know that the old legacy turbo EJ22E has dished pistons and a single exhaust port on the head. Where the EJ22E head from the normally aspirated version has two exhaust ports.

I'm beginning to think the only way I'm going to find out is to acquire these engnines and have a look for myself. Right now I believe the alldata manual is right, and the EJ22E blocks are all the same. Does anybody else have any information?
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Old 05-25-2001, 08:53 AM   #2
mrbell
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It wouldn't surprise me if they were the same basic block, tho I thought the Legacy turbo's had oil squirters. Those might not be part of the block tho. Let me know what you find out, I'm interested in this too...
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Old 05-25-2001, 09:44 AM   #3
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I can answer almost any question you have about the open deck EJ22_ engine.

P.M. me and we'll exchange info. It'll be a heck of a lot quicker than me telling you the 20+ places I'd have to send you to.

-Sambo
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Old 05-25-2001, 09:48 AM   #4
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There were both single and dual port exhaust. I forget when the switch was made...

Roger
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Old 05-25-2001, 09:55 AM   #5
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The "oil squirters" you are reffering to are called lash adjusters. In the EJ22T they are solid. In all the other EJ22's they are not, AFAIK.

The solid lash adjuster is preferable for turbo applications. Reason being, at higher rev's the lash takes a H3ll of a beating from the spring assembly. However, these parts will wear quicker on account of the fact there is no more oil passing through the rocker assembly.

The oil serves to lubricate the contact surface of the lash adjuster. The rocker assembly benefits from the cool oil passing through the guts of the rocker and arms.

For N/A engines the regular lash adjuster is preferred b/c it's nearly impossible to generate that much re-bound in the springs to damage them.

Class is in session. Please have a seat and prepare your notes.

-Sambo
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Old 05-25-2001, 10:03 AM   #6
XT6Wagon
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1st off the "T" in EJ-22T is the lazy way to say its out of a single turbo car with a 2.2L displacement, and is of the EJ engine family. The REAL designation would end with a different letter like you were finding. The Last engine that I know of to actualy have a "T" at the end of the offical designation is the EA-82T.

On the "oil squirters" bit the Legacy Trubo DID have them and they spray oil on the back of the piston. They have nothing to do with the lash adjusters.
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Old 05-25-2001, 10:11 AM   #7
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Hmmm... You are suggesting one of us is wrong.

So what is the technical name for your "oil squirter"? I'm just geussing that's not the real name for the thing...

As for the engine name thing - regardless of what it comes out of there is only one way to determine the identity of the short block, that I know of. It's usually visible from looking down on the top of the engine, and should looks something like this. If you want a real identification of a vehicle, one must refer to the VIN. Which will describe the rest of the vehicles mechanical elemnents - turbo, engine type, plant of manufacture, passenger restraint system, etc.

-Sambo

[This message has been edited by Sambo (edited May 25, 2001).]
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Old 05-25-2001, 10:39 AM   #8
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Oil squirters in the block firing at the back of the pistons are not at all unusual for factory turbocharged engines. Many cars have them...

A few naturally aspirated engines have them as well. I agree that this is far away from the valvetrain and the HLAs.
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Old 05-25-2001, 10:41 AM   #9
pottsie350
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XT6Wagon, that makes sense. I've been wondering if that's what's been going on. And I believe you are right about the oil squirter (sorry Sambo) and I don't know what the technical name is.

Suzuki oil cooled GSXRs used the same type of oil spray to cool the underside of the piston. I'm not sure if it's part of the crank/connecting rod assembly or if it sprays from the block.

I'm still digging. I just called a friend at the Subaru garage. Last time I was there they were getting ready to dissasemble a 2.2. out of an Impreza. He's busy but he's gonna find out if it's apart yet and call me back. I'll haul myself down their with a digital camera and take some pics it it's apart.

I'm on a mission.
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Old 05-25-2001, 10:48 AM   #10
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XT6,

I think I've found the "oil squirter" you were referring to.

From my notes, Oil is taken from the oil pan, passed through a strainer, then the oil pump, through the oil cooler(if you have one), through the oil filter to the cylender block main gallery, on the right hand side.

Then things get interesting... From this junction oil is directed one of 6 ways:

1. The #1 journal bearing (front)
2. The #4 journal bearing (center)
3. The #5 journal bearing (rear)
4. The #1 & #3 cylinder head, right side
5. The cylinder block main gallery, left side
6. The oil pressure switch

For sake of ease, we'll discuss item 2, the #4 journal front bearing (center). From here it passes to #3, #4 <FONT size="4">oil jet</FONT s> Is this what you mean by "oil squirter"?

-Sambo
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Old 05-25-2001, 11:03 AM   #11
Sambo
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Now if my assumption is correct, the oil jet (colloquially known as a oil squirter, and will be reffered to as a oil jet proceedingly...) is part of the block design. They would have to somewhat radically alter the mold - molds for making engines are h3lla expensive...unlikely.

Unless, these passages are bored from the block after cooling from the pour of the mold. I doubt this process is used because of the intricate nature of the pathways in place in these blocks. This would bring us back to the concept the block is built with these passages from the mold. And therefore I would assert, they all have the oil jets.

I doubt they would make two seperate blocks for the purpose of making one with oil jets, and one without... Thoughts?

I have a picture of an "open deck", and "closed deck" or "sand cast" block around here someplace. It's just a picture of the mating surface on the block for the head, to illustrate the water jacket of the open deck... looking...

-Sambo

[This message has been edited by Sambo (edited May 25, 2001).]
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Old 05-25-2001, 11:12 AM   #12
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The ALLDATA picture is wrong. I have a '99 2.2 block here and can assure you it is an open deck design. I'm betting the ALLDATA picture is of a 2.2 turbo block. I also have a EJ22t shortblock and it's closed just like the picture. The oil squirters (jets to please sambo), are spring loaded pieces that are machined and tapped. You could add them to the 2.2 block. Perhaps the earlier 2.2 blocks were all solid decks.

svxtrem
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Old 05-25-2001, 11:43 AM   #13
Sambo
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SVX - show us pictures! We wanna see!

-Sambo
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Old 05-25-2001, 11:52 AM   #14
pottsie350
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Yes Please, that's what I'm looking for. I have found so much conflicting data. I almost tore the head off of my car one weekend. I still haven't heard back from my friend at the Subaru garage.
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Old 05-25-2001, 11:56 AM   #15
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I don't have a digital camera, but if you want pictures, you can use the ones above- the '99 2.2 looks pretty much identical to your 2.5 labeled picture. The 2.2 turbo is identical to the 2.2 labeled picture. I don't have an actual 2.5, so I don't know what they look like. I do have a 1.8, but haven't torn it down to see what the deck looks like.
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Old 05-25-2001, 01:02 PM   #16
Sambo
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Digging harder for those pics...

-Sambo
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Old 05-25-2001, 01:12 PM   #17
Sambo
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I really was going to loose my mind there for a minute! Here's the closed deck:

<IMG SRC="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BC-BFLegacyWorks/files/0158_3mg.jpg" border=0>

Here's the open deck:

<IMG SRC="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BC-BFLegacyWorks/files/0231_12mg.jpg" border=0>

Mmmm... Feeling much better now.

-Sambo


[This message has been edited by Sambo (edited May 25, 2001).]
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Old 05-25-2001, 01:23 PM   #18
frog
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I don't think there is any big deal to adding oil squirters to a cylinder as long as there are galleys going near so you can tap them.

Sport Compact Car did a build up of an SR20DE engine from a 200SX project car that they built and since the turbo version of the engine, the SR20DET, had oil squirters, they put them into their engine. They just used the same ones that went into the turbo and had to modify the pistons slightly for clearance. No big deal.

Mike
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Old 05-25-2001, 01:45 PM   #19
mrbell
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Sambo,
Those pics don't show up unless you're a member of the message board they're linked to...
Pottsie(or anyone),
can you get a pic of the A/C belt tensioner off of a MY00 Impreza RS from Alldata or something? Thanks.
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Old 05-25-2001, 02:09 PM   #20
Sambo
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Well, that's not going to do now is it?

Working...

-=Sambo
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Old 05-25-2001, 02:33 PM   #21
Sambo
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Hope this works:

Closed Deck (below)

<IMG SRC="http://content.communities.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=view_photo&ID_Community=Onemanand hisSubaru&ID_Topic=1&ID_Message=1" border=0>

Open Deck (below)

<IMG SRC="http://content.communities.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=view_photo&ID_Community=Onemanand hisSubaru&ID_Topic=1&ID_Message=2" border=0>

Did that work?

-=Sambo
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Old 05-25-2001, 04:20 PM   #22
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Hi there,

Early 2.2 turbo blocks were closed deck.. and fitted with oil squirters

2.2 NA blocks were open deck.

Later 2.2 blocks are open deck.

It is possible to get open deck blocks fitted with squirters.. I think upto about 1996'ish (cant remember).

It is reasonably easy to fit squirters to phase one blocks.. the galleries are already in place...

But not the case with some phase II blocks. These require extra machining.

The squirters are 20mm in from the egde of the bore... 10mm from the edge of the support.. angled at 75 degrees.

They use a M5 thread IIRC...

J.
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Old 05-25-2001, 06:05 PM   #23
pottsie350
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Excellent. Ok. I think I'm being convinced that AllData is wrong. I just read on another new site I found the Subaru, ahwile back, started using die cast to forge all their blocks, and it's not possible to make a closed deck block with die casting. They supposedly started using die casting exclusively because the dies are more precise than sand casting. I can vouch for that after being a ford mechanic for a while.

mrbelll pm about the pic, otherwise I'm sure I'll forget by monday.

Thanks for all your input. I sure wish somebody would make an accurate shopmanual for the new subarus. I'll have to make sure I let AllData know of their mistake. You know the funny thing is they don't have a diagram of the turbo block under the Legacy. Go figure.
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Old 05-25-2001, 06:32 PM   #24
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oil galley (like galley slave)
gallery (the r is for art)
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Old 05-26-2001, 12:06 AM   #25
svxtrem
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For a little more info, the waterpump on the turbo model is different. The water housing out-pipe comes off the front, not the bottom. I pulled out my old '92 service manual. That manual shows the non-turbo block having an open deck. It also has pictures of a closed deck motor, but does not label it as such. But, I can assure you the new turbo shortblock I have is DEFINITELY closed and has oil jets. So, I don't know where the ALLDATA 2.2 picture comes from. Since it seems to show a closed deck block, but has a non-turbo waterpump. I can also tell you definitively that not only is the block different, but so are the heads, water pump, fuel pump (extremely high flow rate), oil pump, and transmission. Effectively, the 2.2 turbo is a WRX 2.2 with SOHC heads and no intercooler.

svxtrem
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