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Old 12-28-2002, 04:53 AM   #1
Marcin
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Post Marcin's EJ25T buildup -Discusion-

An idea was brought up at the last denny's meet, to build a block for my turbo project.

I want to hear some local opinions on how to go about this. I know EJ25 buildups were discussed alot by certain club members and I would like their input. I know there are plenty on knowlege in this forum alone, where midwest is starting to be the RS-T central.

Let's begin I want to spend about $2000 on that phase of the project. So...

I got a used EJ25 Block, I need Crank rods and pistons, What am I looking at, what needs to be done to make this block handle boost well. What compresion will still let me have the lowend power before hitting boost?
What can we do to the heads, Do I need special valvetrain. Can I have special cams made?

I read the FAQ up and down. I comes down to which parts/specs to use for my setup.

I want to be able to drop the block in the car, without the turbo kit, and be able to drive rather normally without boost just with RC injectors and Link Plus.

I guess I want to go DoctorNick's route, with reliable turbo setup + Link plus
I want to bring this up now before the next meet, just more time to think about this and cover more aspects.

Post away

(yes it's 4am, i know I should be sleeping)
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Old 12-28-2002, 05:36 AM   #2
HndaTch627
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9.0:1 to keep some torque and be able to run decent boost numbers, Forged pistons obvioulsy

Crower or Pauter Rods

O-Ringing the block
Boring for 100mm pistons

2g's would cover it most likely

But if you want to run decent boost numbers add a set of cams and Springs/Retainers for the heads in there.

Jeremy
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Old 12-28-2002, 08:33 AM   #3
rao
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You can't really discuss this topic without first deciding what is the ultimate amount of power you want from the appliction. The answers will be different depending on what you expect when you are done. Do you want 250 hp or 700 hp? Do you want it to have oem reliability or do you want to rebuild it after each special stage ?

But even without knowing I wouldn't bother to o-ring the block. It will add to the cost and you don't need it or want it.
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Old 12-28-2002, 12:02 PM   #4
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marcin, when you do plan on buying? Pm me..I might have omthing to intrest you.

Last edited by DoctorNick; 12-28-2002 at 12:20 PM.
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Old 12-28-2002, 02:58 PM   #5
Midwayman
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Yup, rods, and pistons, turbo cams and o-ringing. That should allow at least low teens boost safely. Parts cost will be under $2k
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Old 12-28-2002, 04:55 PM   #6
Marcin
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Power wise, I want to run at most 350hp, more likely 280hp to match the STi hp rating. Pretty much I want to have a daily driver and be able to out perform 90% of the new cars out there. STi, Evo, SRTs, SVT Mustangs etc. Also I don't want to constantly have to fix the car. I want to do it right the first time. Hard to accomplish but you know what I mean. Atleast get on the right way.

Pretty much every other aspect of my car is covered already, brakes, suspension, proper seats, etc.

Can I have custum cams fabricated, I don't want to spend on cobb, I think they take an arm and a leg.

Nealo- PM me know what you have.
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Old 12-28-2002, 06:04 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marcin
Power wise, I want to run at most 350hp, more likely 280hp to match the STi hp rating. Pretty much I want to have a daily driver and be able to out perform 90% of the new cars out there. STi, Evo, SRTs, SVT Mustangs etc. Also I don't want to constantly have to fix the car. I want to do it right the first time. Hard to accomplish but you know what I mean. Atleast get on the right way.
SVT is a hard match for BPU supras on the highway. If your talking street, you will have them. But 2wd cars with matching power or even 50 less will take most of the rolls for the most part. IMO. But that chat if for a diffrent thread.
You got a new PM.
-Neal
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Old 12-28-2002, 08:13 PM   #8
HndaTch627
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marcin buy a gearset, cause you are going to need it.

jeremy
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Old 12-28-2002, 08:36 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by HndaTch627
marcin buy a gearset, cause you are going to need it.

jeremy
heehee, I told him that on the phone. But it sounds like he thinks he has a backup gearset already
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Old 12-28-2002, 08:48 PM   #10
HndaTch627
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Quote:
Originally posted by DoctorNick

heehee, I told him that on the phone. But it sounds like he thinks he has a backup gearset already
unless is a chalak, pfitzer etc then he better buy a real one
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Old 12-29-2002, 10:35 AM   #11
Marcin
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Neal has pretty much what I need, if he decides to sell.
Now pfitzer, is that the gearset that Dylan was mentioning for his car? The name is quite new to me, I'm used to hearing Chalek and MRT. Speaking of Chalek when is Andrews set going into a gearbox?
What cost am I looking at?
Chalek gearset for 99+ RS/Legacy $2300
Steel Shift fork $ 250
Whats a cost of a case $ ???
+ labor
Where can I get a tranny case and around how much would it cost, I know Dylan has some laying around.
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Old 12-29-2002, 11:38 AM   #12
Revision
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Hey, no talking about me behind my back.

Gearset goes in the spare tranny when the weather gets warmer or when this gearset breaks. Whichever comes first.

Right now I'm trying to get the car ready to pass emissions. So bugger off buddy boy.

You want the STi forged shift fork.

Finally, I think you want to look at this in terms of how much YOU want to spend.

You finally have the ECU, fuel injectors, Turbo, uppipe, downpipe, gauges(?), catback(?), lined up labor and charges(?), line on a gearset(?), prices on upgraded rear diff(?), prices on upgraded center diff(?), prices on upgraded front diff(?), driving lesssons(???).. All lined up right?

BTW how is your reserve?
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Old 12-29-2002, 12:27 PM   #13
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I guess I should put my two cents in here, since I'll probably be the one building this one.

9:0 to 1 is a good starting compression, with proper tuning on pump gas you should be able to run 12-15 psi all day long with a peak of about 20 psi on race fuel.

By my calculations that should put you around the high 300hp range on pump gas.

The combination of rods and pistons that "others" have gone with are nice but stay away from JE pistons, they have issues.

I would run either Pauter or Crower rods with Ross or Arias pistons. The factory crank seems to hold up quite well, so other than having it balanced.

If you have a block all you'll need is the above mentioned parts and a gasket set and bearings and you'll be set.

Then the issue becomes drivetrain failure.

-Dylan
G 7 Motorsports
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Old 12-29-2002, 05:30 PM   #14
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I have personally seen to many drivetrain failures on ej25. my route that I'm almost done with is a ej20 swap, less stress on the tranny. Cheaper than buying trannys and gears. Bolts right in, and more parts available than ej25 motor. But my 2 cents. I have the article from Sport Compact Car from a couple years ago, about how weak the tranny is in the ej25. Torque, not Hp, is really responsible for breaking gears, and the ej25 is a SOHC, and produces alot of low end torque. Where as a DOHC makes alot of high end HP(ask any real engine builder). Yes the ej20 breaks trannys, but not as often pumping with turbo as the ej25. I guarantee you will break your first tranny in a few months, that is why I went with the ej20 swap. You can shrug me off and not listen, and watch it happen, or have your boost so low that it would be pointless to have turbo. If you want to email with questions, I would be willing to answer. I have seen it to many times before, alot of wasted money. It really would be cheaper going with a WRX ej20 motor. Feel free to email.


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Old 12-29-2002, 06:39 PM   #15
Marcin
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underground-mpyre - point well taken, but after considering all options, I have to stay with RS-T project.

I actually just returned from a metting with some Nick Jeremy and Dylan and we figured out what I need for my setup. So added to my list is a pfitzer gearbox with STI and Quaffe diffs.

BTW: underground-mpyre: If you are ever in Chicago area, make sure you stop my our Thursday night meets so we can check out your setup. Who did your swap? Is the motor still stock?

Last edited by Marcin; 12-29-2002 at 06:45 PM.
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Old 12-29-2002, 07:02 PM   #16
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underground a properly cammed SOHC EJ25 flows identical to the stock WRX head, the main problem with the stock SOHC head is the baby camshaft they thru in it. and as far as your torque comment, you can ask anyone that when making 300 hp regardless of how you will shatter the trans it all depends on how long it last before it grenades.

jeremy

p.s.: that is given that you are shifting it slower then you cn shift my truck with the 8" shifter throw
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Old 12-29-2002, 07:25 PM   #17
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Torque or not, Subaru stock trans can't hold more then twice its stock power even babied.
I have seen stock 2.5rs guys snap there first gear.
I have seen stock WRX guys snap first & second gear.
Stock or not, if you drive this car hard, you will brake somthing. Once you start to modify the car the more you need to not as harsh on the trans.
Once you get to the HP range of 50 over stock or more you gotta relise that if you go WOT in first gear from a stop, it might be the last time you can go WOT in first gear from a stop.

Building the trans is something you need to do if you plan to push this car.

I owning an automatic am taking a risk by not doing a valve body and torque converter. I should, but I don't. I also have a higher powerlimit until I need to do the work IF I properly care for my trans. You manual people don't have the same luxary. Its expensive, but IMO mandatory to do if you plan on adding boost or going higher then a bar on your wrx.

Marcin: So what are your final plans on power and goals for the car overall. Do you want it to be a quartermile hunter or a highway runner or a street/strip kinda car? Also, once the motor builder gets back to me on a final quote..I will contact you about what I am going to do. I am going to see how a test drive goes by an i-clubber down south before I make a move. So if you can wait a few more days. I decide what I am going to do.

-Neal
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Old 12-30-2002, 08:37 AM   #18
omahasubaru
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I think most of the information provided is very good and quite Accurate.. 9:1 is the best compromise between on/off boost response. I wish I had $2k to blow to make my engine higher compression, but alas I don't.

One thing I didn't see discussed was the valvetrain. Have you considered upgrading your valves, springs, & retainers? I would think that building this as you are.. you'd want the flexabilty of running a higher redline.

Just a thought... those with what you're planning will pretty much push your $2k budget over the limit I'd guess, especially if you're paying someone to do the work for you.

Jon
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Old 12-30-2002, 04:28 PM   #19
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hey,

just wanted to chime in here. for you guys wanting the stroker motor, but higher compression i have several sets of pistons, rods, and sleeves. my kit ends up having a ratio of about 8.3 or 8.4 to 1. it depends on how you deck the case. i use pauter rods, ross pistons, and darton ductile iron sleeves. i just recently sent a shortmotor to alex, the previous owner of this forum and i am sending one to shiv for their sport compact car featured 2.5 turbo rs.

although it isn't a bad idea, there is no need to o-ring the block or head if enough care is taken when assembling the motor. the stock metal 2.5 head gasket is more than up to the job.

i also have an upgraded valvetrain package that will let your motor rev to 9500rpms. it contains new lifters, shims, ti retainers, dual springs, and new keepers. there is a very minor machining process that needs to be done to the head to let the dual springs fit. for those not wanting 9500, i also have a kit that will safely go to 8250rpms and uses single springs and is a drop-in kit.

ron
r.williams@axispowerracing.net
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Old 12-31-2002, 02:11 AM   #20
HndaTch627
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Ron-the valve train kit you are speaking of would fit a DOHC motor, not a SOHC motor.

Jeremy

p.s.: why'd you kill boogerwrx(and thanks for letting us know it was you, i was confused who you were )

Last edited by HndaTch627; 12-31-2002 at 02:21 AM.
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Old 12-31-2002, 10:24 AM   #21
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yes, the valvetrain is only for the dohc wrx heads. personally i think the sohc is great, but it's hard to convince some people so i just made the kits for the dohc heads.

i had to kill boogerwrx because my vendor status is starting and for tax purposes it had to be legit and linked to axis power racing.

ron
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Old 12-31-2002, 11:42 AM   #22
HndaTch627
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Quote:
Originally posted by Axis Power Racing
yes, the valvetrain is only for the dohc wrx heads. personally i think the sohc is great, but it's hard to convince some people so i just made the kits for the dohc heads.

i had to kill boogerwrx because my vendor status is starting and for tax purposes it had to be legit and linked to axis power racing.

ron
understood, and i understand the dilemma for the valve train package, hard to explain to people that these cars ARE out there.

jeremy
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