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Old 01-02-2003, 04:48 PM   #1
Rodan
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Default I found this interesting

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Old 01-02-2003, 05:19 PM   #2
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HOLY SCHNIKIES!!! Has the world gone MAD?!

I cannot WAIT to see the reception of this. The big 3 are going to try and make up new rules by then that cars must be 100% 'merican probably.

--kC
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Old 01-02-2003, 05:25 PM   #3
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This has been going on for a bit now. I find it interesting that they are developing a motor SPECIFICALLY for nASScar that likely will not be used for production cars, or even sold to the public. I bet the big three require some sort of casting rule for the motor that xx,xxx of the motor has to be built. It's easy for the big three as they sell a bunch of crate motors and those blocks (or similar) are in their trucks, etc.
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Old 01-02-2003, 07:09 PM   #4
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Fact is that Toyota has to sell cars in the US, and NASCAR is where they can find their customers. So, it has nothing to do with product R&D, but everything to do with marketing.

If NASCAR bodies are made of wood, and the cars run on coal, Toyota is going to make them as long as it helps selling cars in the US (especially in the heartlands and the South).

-Ray
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Old 01-03-2003, 04:50 PM   #5
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Very true, plus they really don't do that well in motor sports. The only Japanese company that has been successful is Subaru in the WRC. But Honda and Toyota have teams in the F1 circuit and they failed miserably. Honda actually had 2 teams, Jordan Honda and Bar Honda.
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Old 01-03-2003, 04:58 PM   #6
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Toyota was successful in WRC before they got banned too...
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Old 01-03-2003, 05:55 PM   #7
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Quote:
One problem with the engine is casting it in iron. Most Toyota blocks are aluminum alloy, but engineers found a Toyota facility in Japan that still casts in iron.
Unfortunately, Toyota is technologically too far ahead of NASSCAR. But their engineers have worked closely with World War II automotive museum to recreate the needed technology.
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Old 01-03-2003, 08:05 PM   #8
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Honda was as successful as Ferrari is right now not that long ago, late 80s i think. With the Williams team they won like 15 of 16 races.
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Old 01-04-2003, 03:45 AM   #9
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what? toyota was banned from wrc? what happened... i never knew that
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Old 01-04-2003, 05:26 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Osgood30


Unfortunately, Toyota is technologically too far ahead of NASSCAR. But their engineers have worked closely with World War II automotive museum to recreate the needed technology.
Im laughing my arse off at this one
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Old 01-04-2003, 10:38 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lou
Honda was as successful as Ferrari is right now not that long ago, late 80s i think. With the Williams team they won like 15 of 16 races.
it was McLaren not Williams
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Old 01-04-2003, 11:06 AM   #12
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Prost and Senna though right?
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Old 01-04-2003, 12:04 PM   #13
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Toyota and Honda both have also been very succesful in CART.
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Old 01-04-2003, 03:09 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by naveeny
Very true, plus they really don't do that well in motor sports. The only Japanese company that has been successful is Subaru in the WRC. But Honda and Toyota have teams in the F1 circuit and they failed miserably. Honda actually had 2 teams, Jordan Honda and Bar Honda.
that's only the current situation, but as others have stated,

Honda has owned Cart during the Zanardi years
Honda was successful in F1 in the 80's
Hondas/Yamahas do well in motor cycle racing
Mitsu did pretty well in WRC in the Makkinen years and before that, Toyota did pretty good with Sainz and the french guy who's last name is like Oreo
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Old 01-04-2003, 03:40 PM   #15
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The major car manufacturers go to racing for marketing, and/or technology development.

Honda succeeded in the latter with their F1 entry in the 80's. Even though none of Honda's current cars are turbo-charged, they did learn a lot about high-revving small-displacement engines that are now used in most of their cars. However, in terms of marketing, supplying F1 teams didn't help them market their cars. In Europe, where F1 is king, Honda is still a niche player.

That's why Toyota is doing it differently now. They want their own team, racing under the Toyota name. If the team is successful in a few years, it will be a big boost for Toyota's sales in Europe, which is also very weak compared to the European makes.

Over here in the US, both Honda and Toyota jumps to IRL when they realize more people watches IRL than CART. Easy decision for them. Same reason why Toyota wants to go to NASCAR.

Subaru is a niche maker everywhere in the world, including its home market of Japan. They need something high-profile to keep it semi-independent. And WRC makes a lot of sense, and they have cornered the AWD market in the US.

It is, on the other hand, not as apparent for Mitsubishi. Most of their cars are not AWD, and they remain a pretty small player in Europe. It makes more sense for them to do something like the Dakar as they are relatively strong in the light-truck market in the world, except the US.

-Ray
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Old 01-04-2003, 08:42 PM   #16
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Default Re: re

Quote:
Originally posted by theheckwithyou
what? toyota was banned from wrc? what happened... i never knew that
Yeah rally catalunya spain 1995 the toyota's had turbos that had

a way of bypassing the restrictors. I remember seeing pics of

how it worked some sort of spring setup. I guess they had got

away with it for awhile. Thus the one year ban from rally .
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Old 01-05-2003, 02:16 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Osgood30


Unfortunately, Toyota is technologically too far ahead of NASSCAR. But their engineers have worked closely with World War II automotive museum to recreate the needed technology.


Toyota creating a new old engine for NASCAR...that sure doesn't meet the conventional notion of a "stock car" does it?
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Old 01-05-2003, 08:43 AM   #18
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Does anybody know if they are still letting Toyota use overhead cams? Awhile back that was the plan, and part of the reason they were going to trucks first, so that NASCAR hould learn the right handicaps for the OHC. But that was the only "new" tech they were going to let them use. After that they would allow any bofy to build to that standard.
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Old 01-05-2003, 09:57 AM   #19
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Mazda also won Le Mans but it didnt help their sales at all.
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