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Old 01-05-2003, 02:25 PM   #1
paulw
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Default Spoolup UTEC w/FBC/ABC vs UTEC/MBC?

Anyone compare spool-up times with a larger than stock turbo using a UTEC with the FBC/ABC and the UTEC with a MBC? With the UTEC/FBC/ABC my PE1818 isn't at full boost until 4300rpm. I have been doing at lot of tuning with the fuel and boost curves and can't get it much lower. I recall my spool-up being much quicker when I had the Link and used a TurboXS MBC.
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Old 01-05-2003, 03:49 PM   #2
roybfr
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I am still running the HPMBC as when I still have a unichip I was not happy with the performance of the FBC/ABC combo. Are you running closed loop boost control? IIMU that with 2.5b closed loop control that the ABC/FBC combo works better then when using open loop. Though I may be wrong.

Troy
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Old 01-05-2003, 10:36 PM   #3
DocDetroit
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On the stock turbo I graphed the spool-up of two runs. One with the UTEC is stock mode, and one with the UTEC on a Stage 2 map. In both cases I had the ABC completely closed.

On the stage 2 map I spooled a couple hundred RPM later. It's an unmodified stage 2 map. Hopefully when I start tuning it I can get the spool back

Here is graph of both runs. These are WOT 3rd gear pulls from 2,000 RPM.

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Old 01-05-2003, 11:49 PM   #4
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I think with closed loop and controlling the boost at all times you may be able to approach a MBC. Like put boost at 100% at all throttle positions and RPM, because that's basically what a MBC is doing. Honestly, I don't think it's possible to match a MBC for spoolup with the ABC/FBC combo, but you should be able to come pretty damn close.
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Old 01-06-2003, 12:16 AM   #5
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Default Re: Spoolup UTEC w/FBC/ABC vs UTEC/MBC?

Quote:
Originally posted by paulw
Anyone compare spool-up times with a larger than stock turbo using a UTEC with the FBC/ABC and the UTEC with a MBC? With the UTEC/FBC/ABC my PE1818 isn't at full boost until 4300rpm. I have been doing at lot of tuning with the fuel and boost curves and can't get it much lower. I recall my spool-up being much quicker when I had the Link and used a TurboXS MBC.
Paul. I attempted to use the Utecs boost control for over a week and in the end decided to just go back to my APEX AVCR. I wonder about your setup and I wonder if you are in the same boat as me. Are you able to obtain high boost levels with the utecs control? I was never able to get over 13-14 psi even with the ABC 2-3 turns out and this is with 500 in the boost map. I checked hoses, Flash code, Switched solenoids and messed with it for hours...

In that config 14 psi took until 4200 rpm with my 1820. With the same exact utec map and my AVCR hooked up I get that same 14 psi at only 3650 rpm.... Response was ten times faster.

Many people love the utecs boost control and many people have no issues in getting high boost. I dont doubt that it works like they say. I just wonder if you and I have a similiar problem... I would love to use the utec boost control.. I just was not successful at getting it to work on my car.

Clark
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Old 01-06-2003, 11:15 AM   #6
nmyeti
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The UTEC will let the turbo spool up faster than our HPMBC (or just about any other boost controller we've tested at this point), provided you have the boost settings correctly tuned for your car, and that you've properly tuned your low end fuel settings.

If you are having problems with the UTEC spooling a bit late it's one of three things

1. The gain setting is too high (lower numbers = faster spool, but more chance of spikes)
2. The early RPM boost settings are not properly tuned
3. The lower RPM fuel settings are too rich.


Given the correct state of tune the UTEC, as a system, will bring the turbo onto boost faster than anything else on the market. However, this is one of the areas where you must tune to get these results. Lucky for you, since you have a user tunable engine management system!

-Nathan
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Old 01-06-2003, 12:36 PM   #7
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After some conversastions with Phil at TurboXS I began reducing fuel at lower rpm's. I am now at -9% at all points from zero to 3500rpm, dropping to -8% after that. I also extended the closed loop boost setting of 500 up to 4000rpm, dropping to 400 from 4000-5000, then 300 from 5000-6000 and 275 from 6000-7500.

Things have not improved much. In third gear starting at 2000 rpm, I get 10psi at 3500, 14psi at 4000 and 18psi at around 4600. I live in Oregon so it's at sea level and 45 degrees. My egt's still look good, possibly too low (750c max) and the a/f is still rich at all points in full throttle.

I tried gain at 40 but got some spikes to 19psi so I dropped it "down" to 45.
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Old 01-06-2003, 12:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by paulw
After some conversastions with Phil at TurboXS I began reducing fuel at lower rpm's. I am now at -9% at all points from zero to 3500rpm, dropping to -8% after that. I also extended the closed loop boost setting of 500 up to 4000rpm, dropping to 400 from 4000-5000, then 300 from 5000-6000 and 275 from 6000-7500.

Things have not improved much. In third gear starting at 2000 rpm, I get 10psi at 3500, 14psi at 4000 and 18psi at around 4600. I live in Oregon so it's at sea level and 45 degrees. My egt's still look good, possibly too low (750c max) and the a/f is still rich at all points in full throttle.

I tried gain at 40 but got some spikes to 19psi so I dropped it "down" to 45.

Do you have all stock hoses and restrictors in place? Because if it takes till 4000rpms to get 14psi then either you have a very laggy turbo or something else is wrong...

-Nathan
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Old 01-06-2003, 12:51 PM   #9
paulw
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The restrictor is in place as are all of the stock hoses. I have wondered if the stock boost solenoid is defective but I don't know how to test it.

Another bit of information; Over the past 6-9 months my mileage has declined from approximately 20mpg in town to 15mpg. This is with the same commute and driving style. Winter gas probably contributes about 1-1.5mpg of that decline (I use 10% Toluene too) but I am still down about 20%. It's possible the poor spool-up and bad mileage are related. I do not get any misfire codes.
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Old 01-06-2003, 12:57 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by paulw
The restrictor is in place as are all of the stock hoses. I have wondered if the stock boost solenoid is defective but I don't know how to test it.

Another bit of information; Over the past 6-9 months my mileage has declined from approximately 20mpg in town to 15mpg. This is with the same commute and driving style. Winter gas probably contributes about 1-1.5mpg of that decline (I use 10% Toluene too) but I am still down about 20%. It's possible the poor spool-up and bad mileage are related. I do not get any misfire codes.

Try a simple MBC boost control to see what you get. Also, you could simply pull your vac line off the wastegate for a test. Obviously you will have no boost regulation... Just floor the pedal and when you see 14 psi let out and note the rpm...

I wish I could figure out my issue. I would love to use the Utecs boost control. I am planning a visit to MD on the 17th and Nathan is going to show me in person how everything hooks up. I am damn sure I have it right but something must be wrong...

Clark
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Old 01-13-2003, 11:10 AM   #11
IA Performance
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What I ran into during tune time at TXS this past weekend was not being able to boost over 18.5psi on the utec, but they later found out on the road test that it was due to load bearing factors for the dyno and that in the end I have 20 psi in race mode. I'd like to see what 22 would make me for power, but Nathan left that ball in my court. I figure the car drives and I still have a motor in 1 piece so no need to really push it.

Apparently some stock solenoids do not like high boost/won't reach it. Either way the car runs great and I have an AVCr at hom along with a profec B so I have some choices on boost down teh road. Neither are installed, still deciding.

Spool up on my setup is 14psi at 3800 rpm, that's the only point that I've noted so far. Keep in mind that I have "laggy" headers too :P Back to back dyno runs showed the same spool up time, but the first runs generally had a bit more lag (not too much) since the exh gas wasn't heated up enough.

Last edited by East Coast Scooby; 01-13-2003 at 11:40 AM.
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