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Old 01-06-2003, 04:55 PM   #1
newscooby
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Default Did I read this correctly??

Quote:
4-wheel fully independent sport-tuned suspension with inverted front strut
/\ From Nick's post.

Why are just the front struts inverted. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but does the STi everywhere else have inverted struts all the way around??

Is this some sort of cost compromise?? We'll get the stronger inverted struts in front and just retuned WRX dampers in the rear??

Or is this all just a weird dream

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Old 01-06-2003, 05:01 PM   #2
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fronts AND rears are inverted.. read the speech...i think the press release isn't correct..or the speech isn't correct..

but it makes more sense for all the struts to be inverted
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Old 01-06-2003, 05:05 PM   #3
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Yes, they are all inverted.
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Old 01-06-2003, 11:57 PM   #4
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The suspension gallery caption says:
Quote:
New inverted struts in the front and rear for quicker
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Old 01-07-2003, 12:16 AM   #5
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What's the effect of having "inverted struts"?

Thanks
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Old 01-07-2003, 12:20 AM   #6
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You can drive upside down.
















Alright, alright....
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Old 01-07-2003, 12:22 AM   #7
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The inverted strut design was learned thru WRC racing. They flex less under hard cornering allowing the suspension to work the way it was intended.


Bill
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Old 01-07-2003, 12:26 AM   #8
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I believe they lower the unsprung weight too.
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Old 01-07-2003, 12:27 AM   #9
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Default unsprung weight

The classic explanation you will find in any suspension and handling book is that inverted struts reduce unsprung weight. This, of course, improves handling (and ride). It may very well be true that they "flex less under cornering..." too
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Old 01-07-2003, 12:27 AM   #10
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Actually, to clarify....


The inverted strut setup provides lower unsprung weight by moving the heaviest part of the strut up and connecting it to the body... so the weight of the strut housing doesn't become a drag on the suspension action.

Lower unsprung weight = good.
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Old 01-07-2003, 12:29 AM   #11
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Ok another n00b here.

What is unsprung weight then?

Thanks in advance,

-paK +0
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Old 01-07-2003, 12:46 AM   #12
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Unsprung weight is any piece of the car not supported by the suspension springs. (i.e. wheels, tires, generally 50% of suspension arm weight, etc.)

And what he said:

Lower unsprung weight = good.
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Old 01-07-2003, 01:31 AM   #13
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Ah thanks for the explanation.

I got the inverted front struts too
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Old 01-07-2003, 01:52 AM   #14
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On motorcycles, inverted forks are actually heavier. The main purpose (on motorcycles) is to reduce flex and control suspension movement. I figured it would be the same for the new STi's struts, but I guess I could be wrong. Anybody know for sure?
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Old 01-07-2003, 07:07 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by whoobaru
On motorcycles, inverted forks are actually heavier. The main purpose (on motorcycles) is to reduce flex and control suspension movement. I figured it would be the same for the new STi's struts, but I guess I could be wrong. Anybody know for sure?
On a motorcycle, the fork is the only front suspension member - it has to control vertical suspension movement and inhibit horizontal flex. There is no suspension arm to help locate the front axle, etc. (certain BMWs Bimotas and one-offs excepted, of course). Therefore, the engineers are willing to trade some weight for improved stiffness.

The increased overall dimensions of the fixed sliders on an inverted fork may increase the overall weight. However, I suspect the stanchions (inside sliding part), axle, wheel and brakes on an inverted fork weigh less than the sliders (outside sliding part), axle, wheel and brakes weigh less than those on a standard fork for a given bike.

As an example, the original Honda CBR900RR had a standard fork with a 16" front wheel at a time when all "serious" sport bikes had inverted forks and 17" wheels.



I belive they did this for light overall weight and a quick-steering front end. They have since gone to an inverted fork and 17" wheel, ostensibly for improved stiffness and stability.



I believe the overall weight of the bike has gone down over that time as well, through various design changes to the frame, etc.

Any sportbikers care to jump in here?

Bottom line: I belive the purpose of inverted struts/shocks on a car is to reduce unsprung weight first and any benefit in stiffness is incidental.

Last edited by Fuzz541; 01-07-2003 at 07:15 AM.
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Old 01-07-2003, 10:16 AM   #16
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about the unsprung wieght issue... I have the V5 suspension and it was much heavier than the stock struts, and it was still balance biased towards the bottom(if I remember right, ti's been a year and a half since I did the swap), so I don't think it really makes much difference in unsprung weight. Of course, it could be that the V5 is just a heavier design regardless of the inversion, so making it inverted did help unsprung weight, but only in comparison with itself were it not inverted.
Damn, I think I just confused myself with that sentence...
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Old 01-07-2003, 12:29 PM   #17
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The old saying is 1 pound of unsprung weight is about equal to 4 pounds of sprung weight. So a car with 25 more pounds of unsprung weight (which is not much if you think about it *cough* aftermarket heavy wheels *cough*) feels as heavy as a car with 100 pounds more sprung weight.

I don't think an inverted fork or strut is anywhere near twice the weight, but even if it were, it would still be beneficial to go inverted.
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Old 01-07-2003, 12:37 PM   #18
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Now here's a question. If '02/'03 owners decide to purchase the STi suspension upgrade, will they now offer the inverted struts? Or are there more parts to make this work other than the struts?

MSD
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Old 01-07-2003, 12:50 PM   #19
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I wonder who supplies the suspension parts? Would this be an inhouse operation or perhaps rebadged from Bilstein/Koni/whatever?
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Old 01-07-2003, 12:53 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by MSD
Now here's a question. If '02/'03 owners decide to purchase the STi suspension upgrade, will they now offer the inverted struts? Or are there more parts to make this work other than the struts?

MSD
I'm pretty sure you already get the inverted struts if you get the suspension upgrade. Inverted struts are nothing new on the STi.
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Old 01-07-2003, 12:57 PM   #21
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I believe the current STI/SPT suspension upgrade consists of inverted struts already (same struts from the international Impreza WRX STIs).

-Jeff
Quote:
Originally posted by MSD
Now here's a question. If '02/'03 owners decide to purchase the STi suspension upgrade, will they now offer the inverted struts? Or are there more parts to make this work other than the struts?

MSD
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Old 01-07-2003, 12:58 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by driggity


I'm pretty sure you already get the inverted struts if you get the suspension upgrade. Inverted struts are nothing new on the STi.
Yup. They LOOK like right-side-up struts, but the internals are all up-side-down.
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Old 01-07-2003, 01:35 PM   #23
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Quote:
Inverted struts are nothing new on the STi.
Hmmm. I thought I remember reading somewhere that when they did the face lift, they made changes to the JDM & EDM STi which included inverted struts, along with some engine improvements. Also remember reading an article about a test drive and how the car handled better...

MSD
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Old 01-07-2003, 02:01 PM   #24
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There are supposedly some differences in the suspension, but the inverted design is not one of them. I don't know what the differences are though. It might just be a difference in the way the valving is done. There's a little bit of info in this thread on scoobynet. http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...hreadid=164036
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Old 01-07-2003, 02:05 PM   #25
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KYB has typically done the suspensions for Subaru, tho Bilstein often steps in as well... So it will likely be one of the two, w/ my money on KYB
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