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Old 01-06-2003, 06:21 PM   #1
Dot.Com Cowboy
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Default Why a modded 2004 WRX > than 2004 US STi

I've seen a raging discussion going on within this forum on the VALUE of the just announced US 2004 STi vs an modded WRX. So let's say the price for the STi, if you can get one and not get gouged is $33K and the price for a new-non modded WRX is $23K.

I for one plan on, and will buy an stock 2004 WRX, this summer because for the $10K difference, I will only have to spend $5,800 for a Vishnu Stage 2 http://www.vishnutuning.com/stage.htm pacakge and have 350HP and 300ft lb of torque. I'll still have almost $4k left to play with and I could still spank the STi.

Now it is true the STi will have better brakes, and 6-speed tany and other enhancements, but with 4K left I could do an brake upgrade, 18inch wheels and tires and other mods, that would make the Wrx out handle, corner and accellerate the STi.

Plus Vishnu is about to come out with a stage 3 apparenly, that will offer 500HP! on the stock Tranny. (Talked to him last week on this and look for it in February.) No word on price yet, but hopefully it will be under $10K installed and tuned.

So based on this, where's the value in an STi? Seriously?

My guess is that it will be impossible to get an STi out the door of a dealer for under $35K with tax licensing and fees.

No WAY I'd pay that for for 76 more horsepower.

Discuss.
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Old 01-06-2003, 06:23 PM   #2
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500hp on stock tranny?.... NOT a good idea, I don't care WHAT they say. It's just a matter of time before it goes. I only have 345hp right now, and I JUST got my car back after 3 weeks in the shop because I ate first gear. I wouldn't reccomend that at all without a new tranny first...
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Old 01-06-2003, 06:24 PM   #3
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Maybe the warranty support for that power?

-paK +1
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Old 01-06-2003, 06:24 PM   #4
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WARRANTY.

or no warranty.
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Old 01-06-2003, 06:25 PM   #5
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One word. Reliability.
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Old 01-06-2003, 06:25 PM   #6
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Semi-OT

Are we to assume that the WRX (MY04) is based on the same powerplant (EJ20) as the MY02/03 models? If so does that mean that all MY02/03 performance mods will work with the MY04?

The impreza.subaru.com page lists the same specs as the MY02/03 for the 04 redesign so I guess it's the same. I can't wait till it is added to the official Subaru lineup for the all out specs. Today's news is more of a teaser if you ask me.
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Old 01-06-2003, 06:25 PM   #7
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it's also the exclusivity.

it looks nicer inside and out, and it's lighter

so yeah...paying some for the performance, and some for the status symbol.

I'd like the STi, but I couldn't afford it... But the stock WRX is looking appealing now that they've facelifted it.
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Old 01-06-2003, 06:26 PM   #8
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The 10k is definately worth it in my opinion, you get all forged internals and the stronger tranny. 500 hp on a 5-speed is just asking for breakage.
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Old 01-06-2003, 06:27 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by WRXGuyInTulsa
500hp on stock tranny?.... NOT a good idea, I don't care WHAT they say. It's just a matter of time before it goes. I only have 345hp right now, and I JUST got my car back after 3 weeks in the shop because I ate first gear. I wouldn't reccomend that at all without a new tranny first...
Directly from Vishnu last week:

The stock trannie can handle around 500 horsepower if not abused and driven hard( high rpm clutch drops etc) We still have not finalized stage 3 pricing at this time, but should have
more information around the first week of February. For Stage 2 you are looking at approx $5877( depending on options, exhaust etc) Happy New Year.

When you lost first gear what were you doing? Hmmm.... Personally I don't ever plan on racing mine, stip, street, or rally, so I think my Tranny will be fine.

I just want a really fast daily driver.
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Old 01-06-2003, 06:28 PM   #10
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Aside from the warranty, here's where I perceive added value in the STi.

The car in engineered to work. Each separate system is designed and tested to work as flawlessly as possible with the other systems in the car. The transmission matches up with the engine. The brakes and suspension work together. Everything is designed with the idea that it will be working together with everything else to create a great car.

The aftermarket provides many possiblilities for well engineered systems, but you increase your risk of failure (warranty comes in here) by adding aftermarket pieces that the rest of the car isn't designed to handle. You lose the synergy that's built into the STi, unless you also play with suspension, wheels and tires, breaks, tranny, etc. in addition to the mods that give you lots of horsepower. For me, having a piece of machinery that is designed from the ground up for the purpose of making driving more fun than you can imagine is too good to pass up. Now, if I can just win the lottery and get one this summer, all will be well.
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Old 01-06-2003, 06:29 PM   #11
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STI 6spd Tranny = $6-10k
76hp power = $3-5k
Brakes = $2k
Front lsd = $1k
DCCD = ???
Forged internals = ???
STI suspension = $1500

high end + bottom end torque = priceless


Just like the WRX people were laughing at the RSers when they said they could take the $5k savings and mod out the RS to beat a WRX. Now the WRX people that bashed the RS people for that are going to use the same arguments against an STi.

You can always create a faster car with less money through mods. But the STi is about the whole package.
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Old 01-06-2003, 06:29 PM   #12
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It's also stock, for racing purposes.

And 18" wheels aren't going to make you corner better than an STI.

Suffice it to say that $10 is an appropriate markup for a stroked engine that puts out 70+ hp without a struggle, Brembo brakes, Lightweight 17" wheels, DCCD, and 6 speeds.

Not to mention the front LSD, interior parts, and various other details.

The STI is a WRX that is DONE.
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Old 01-06-2003, 06:29 PM   #13
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You're a

MORON!



An STI with a $4 MBC will keep up very well with your Vishnu stage 2 car.

Kevin
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Old 01-06-2003, 06:30 PM   #14
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Plus, you're talking as if you have the $32k on hand. People can finance the STI, which is always nice.
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Old 01-06-2003, 06:31 PM   #15
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stock v. stock is the only comparison. There are so many reliability and warranty issues with a modified car that you cant compare.

Not to mention, the STi is greater than the sum of its parts (even more so than the WRX)
This car was engineered to work perfectly as a unit and is crazy fast on track.
If all you care about is big power and drag racing....eh.....go away. not the car for you.
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Old 01-06-2003, 06:32 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by JGard18

I'd like the STi, but I couldn't afford it... But the stock WRX is looking appealing now that they've facelifted it.

I am just hoping that with the introduction of the STi AND body redesign, the WRX for 2004 doesnt jump 2-4k in price to make up for the new Sti.

Yea, you can get the 2004 Sti for 32K, or the WRX for 28k.

Ha. I can see that one coming.
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Old 01-06-2003, 06:32 PM   #17
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Default is vishnu limiting to WRX only?

I am sure Vishnu will be working STis in the future too. Just as WRXs can be modified STis can too and probably to a much higher level (safely). Yes we could all change out every damn part of the car and basically just have a shell, but I am sure that the STi engine could handle a hell of a lot more especially with 2.5L. So probably for around the price of a stage 2, the STi could get to 400 hp. I am sure that the compression is probably around the same as the WRX given the added capacity.

In any case I digress...Im just trying to say the STi can be easily modified in the future too...so compare apples to apples or in this case modified WRX to modified STis
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Old 01-06-2003, 06:34 PM   #18
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As I replied in the other thread.

You will retain more value with the STI (in particular if it's not modded) than you would with a massively modded WRX.

A $24k + $10k car will not resell or be traded in for the same amount as a stock $34k STI. The exclusivity of the STI will also keep it's resale value high.

For a daily driver that you rely on everyday, wouldn't you prefer to have a stock car that comes with a loaner car if it breaks down?
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Old 01-06-2003, 06:35 PM   #19
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I don't disagree that the 2004 STi is a better overall car than a stock WRX, but for approximately ~$10K more?! Hmmm...I dunno.

Personally, I still see a modded WRX as a better value, if not necessarily a better overall, CAR, if that makes sense.

I suppose though, it's all depends on what you want per se. Horse power? Exclusivity? Status? I'm kind of a horse power freak, so maybe that's why the STi is lost on me.

Plus it's wing. Jesus H, it's big. I'm 33 and I'd be embarrased to drive a car with a wing of that size honestly. Plus being an AWD car as opposed to RWD car, a wing, is areodynamicly, not needed.

I could be weird on this though.
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Old 01-06-2003, 06:35 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Red Rocket
You're a

MORON!


Exactly. And why spend all that extra money on a WRX when you can start off with a 2.5RS?

Modded 2004 2.5RS > Modded 2004 WRX > 2004 WRX STi
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Old 01-06-2003, 06:36 PM   #21
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Plus, because of the higher displacement and twin scroll turbo (I'm assuming there), the STi will come onto boost so much earlier.
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Old 01-06-2003, 06:37 PM   #22
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I've heard several versions of this argument - basically it boils down to a bunch of tuners and modders thinking they can second-guess the FHI engineers who design the damn cars. Good luck with that. Yes the Ver8 Sti is pricey, but I am the only one who remembers how many burnt pistons, pulverized gears and cancelled checks have come from trying to turbo the RSes, and crazify the WRXes? Let's not even GO into all the cars wrapped around trees and rolled like doobies. I can't afford to make my car into a WRX or Sti anymore than I can afford to buy one outright, and even if I could, I'm convinced that there's MUCH more to it than bolting on new parts. Nobody put the cars together better than the factory. If I have to take anyone's word for anything, it's not going to be the guy selling boost controllers or dog boxes. Long-ass rant/story short...do you really think you can do better for the price, and have a reliable, legal vehicle? I think it's too easy to underestimate what a car like the Ver8 represents, if you're just looking at price tags and rated HP.


(cha-ching&98centsmakesadollar)
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Old 01-06-2003, 06:38 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dot.Com Cowboy
Plus it's wing. Jesus H, it's big. I'm 33 and I'd be embarrased to drive a car with a wing of that size honestly. Plus being an AWD car as opposed to RWD car, a wing, is areodynamicly, not needed.

I could be weird on this though.
No offense, but I think the people who built the car know far better than you whether or not the wing is needed. It may not be your style, but rear downforce helps ANY car, regardless of drivetrain configuration.

Whether you will be able to see that difference on the street is another matter.
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Old 01-06-2003, 06:38 PM   #24
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Nope, $10K extra for a peace of mind - I will take the STi thank you. Sure, power-wise, you could beat out an STi by modding the WRX, but will the tranny hold up, and who's paying for repairs when it breaks? Doing it properly, you will need more than $10K to spank the STi and you will be very lucky not breaking the tranny in doing so. I don't think the 04 WRX gets a new 5 spd does it? I think not...
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Old 01-06-2003, 06:39 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dot.Com Cowboy

Plus it's wing. Jesus H, it's big. I'm 33 and I'd be embarrased to drive a car with a wing of that size honestly. Plus being an AWD car as opposed to RWD car, a wing, is areodynamicly, not needed.

I could be weird on this though.
hmm...I won't comment much on this... I'll try to be polite.

But you have no idea what you're talking about.
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