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Old 01-06-2003, 08:41 PM   #1
HOKWRX
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Default Subaru really drop da bomb on Mitsu

First it was WRX and the OZ Lancer, now EVO and STi
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Last edited by HOKWRX; 01-06-2003 at 10:28 PM.
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Old 01-06-2003, 08:51 PM   #2
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Yeah, I bet the Mitsu officials are kicking themselves in the rear now.

"D'oh" for lack of better words.

George
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Old 01-06-2003, 09:06 PM   #3
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i think mitsu didnt wanted to risk bringing out the AYC/ACD and 6 spd. cuz we all know mitsu's reliabilty especially towards the AYC....

also, they have no plans on changing the 4G63. the are probably dropping it out soon for a high power GDI turbo engine. i'm sure if they bring that new engine with the evo here, even less ppl will buy it...
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Old 01-06-2003, 09:31 PM   #4
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Excellent marketing strategy!

Let the EVO come out first and let everyone oh and ah. Then introduce the STi the next day and blow'em away... Wow!

joe
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Old 01-06-2003, 09:47 PM   #5
yonrin kudo
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Smile STi good for us, EVO good for Mitsu

I think Mitsubishi would've been laughing if the STi annonced today was listed as at 260hp without DCCD. But just because North America will get the 2.5L 300hp STi with DCCD, I don't think Mitsu is quite bumming.

Mitsu will most likely pull in more revenues and profits from their Lancer line (EVO too) than Subaru does with its Impreza models (including WRXs & STis).

I also think that the EVO will outsell the STi by over a 5-to-1 ratio. Mitsu's main advantage is that they have a wider customer base. Another key factor is that the base price for the STi will be ~$2,500 more than the EVO. Subaru knows they can't compete head-on with Mitsu so instead they catered to the Subie enthusiast. Actually Subaru HAD to give us the best performing STi they could to differentiate the WRX & STi from the EVO. Also, this 2.5L turbo engine is probably a live test before they throw it in the upcoming Legacy.

But I think Subaru has a better sales plan in place. They started this EVO/STI duel first by bringing in the WRX a couple of years ago to test the North American waters. As we know, the WRX has been a big success selling over 36,000 units to date. The WRX will still continue to be their sales volume leader (between WRX and STi). So in essence, it almost seems like the EVO and STi are not direct competitors to me.

Performance-wise I think Mitsu expected Subaru to bring a strong product in the STi, so look for Ralliart to offer performance packages that will bump the EVO hp from 271 to 300+.

That being said, the new North American STi sounds delicious!

Cheers-
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Old 01-06-2003, 10:32 PM   #6
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Here is how these cars in order. EVO should be somewhere between WRX and STi. Mitsu say the EVO is limited to around 4500unit, very close to STi, so i don't think it is going to outsell STi that much.

Lancer OZ edition
Impreza 2.5RS
Impreza WRX
EVO
Impreza STi
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Old 01-06-2003, 10:41 PM   #7
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the WRX vs the lancerOZ???

are u kidding??

the lancerOZ is a POS...

just my $0.02...
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Old 01-06-2003, 10:43 PM   #8
ciper
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Yeah the lanceroz is more comparible to a BC-BF legacy turbo.
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Old 01-06-2003, 10:54 PM   #9
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Lancer OZ is slower than 2.5RS, what are you guys smoking.
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Old 01-06-2003, 11:00 PM   #10
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the US Lancer reminds me a lot of a certain small, slow FWD Subaru introduced in the early/mid 90's in the US...what was that car called?

oh, yeah -- the Impreza.
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Old 01-06-2003, 11:05 PM   #11
HOKWRX
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Quote:
Originally posted by KIMUTAKU
the WRX vs the lancerOZ???

are u kidding??

the lancerOZ is a POS...

just my $0.02...
What i meant was when the new Lancer was first introcduce, the Turbo charged WRX took all its spot light, now the Mitsu launch the EVO, the STi is here to kill it.
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Old 01-06-2003, 11:06 PM   #12
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Actually, I think the EVO fits pretty well where it is, for people who want a little more than the WRX (and are willing to pay for it) and who don't really want to spend 30K+ (probably) for an STI.

I do think Subaru did an excellent job of timing their release of the STI and keeping it so secret.
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Old 01-07-2003, 12:17 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by HOKWRX
Here is how these cars in order. EVO should be somewhere between WRX and STi. Mitsu say the EVO is limited to around 4500unit, very close to STi, so i don't think it is going to outsell STi that much.

Lancer OZ edition
Impreza 2.5RS
Impreza WRX
EVO
Impreza STi
I would amend this one:

Lancer OZ edition
Focus
Honda
Used VW with LSD
Old SE-R
BitCharger
IRacer
any New Age or GC Impreza

Impreza 2.5RS
Impreza WRX
EVO
Impreza STi
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Old 01-07-2003, 12:21 AM   #14
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HOK, I thought you said we'd never get a 2.5 STi?
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Old 01-07-2003, 12:23 AM   #15
Zeorymer
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Quote:
Originally posted by Coati


I would amend this one:

Lancer OZ edition
Focus
Honda
Used VW with LSD
Old SE-R
BitCharger
IRacer
any New Age or GC Impreza

Impreza 2.5RS
Impreza WRX
EVO
Impreza STi
Thank you, that is much better. I don't even know how the Lancer OZ got into this thread, seeing as it doesn't even remotely compare to anything we are discussing. It's a slow, FWD soccer mom grocery getter. Let's not bring it up again.
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Old 01-07-2003, 01:12 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Glenn Wallace
HOK, I thought you said we'd never get a 2.5 STi?
Ok, i was wrong, but I already had my deposit in 3 months ago for one no matter if it is 2.0L or 2.5L. I guess i will call my STi "2.5BS NOT"
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Old 01-07-2003, 01:29 AM   #17
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Old 01-07-2003, 04:09 AM   #18
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I checked out lancerforums.com for a bit. It's funny reading what they say about the Sti. Right now there seems to be a movement that Subaru didn't release the weight because it is close to 3500 lbs!!!

They forget that it is Mitsu that released the 3600 lb 3000gt vr4 and that car fell flat on it's face against similarly priced cars of the time (~45k).

A lot more are saying the EVO has a better suspension and more power, but that Mitsu is purposely underating the numbers.

Some more are complaining about the 2.5l displacement saying it would be a better car with a 2.0l.

Why can't people just realize Mitsu makes their money from screwing their customers. They screwed the entire US market by de-evolving the EVO for the US. Subaru on the other hand is doing what the enthusiasts want.
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Old 01-07-2003, 05:47 AM   #19
HOKWRX
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AT evolutionm.net, alot of EVO buyer are seriously thinking about getting the STi instead.
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Old 01-07-2003, 06:55 AM   #20
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I hope you guys do not sit around and say Evo this and Evo that because I will let you know a little Secret! Top End even the STi will have a hard time staying up. The Evo is geared for more top end and the engine is well proven mod friendly monster. Don't underestimate the Evo, the minute you do your Sti will be sitting there wondering what just spanked you. Remember there is always someone faster...

Besides if that is the 04 stateside and the numbers are only 300 you guys need someone to get you a diff computer because the Sti here can easily get those numbers and its not a 2.5. I think they are short changing the power if you can get one here and hit 300 with ease then they definately have humbled that beast down IMHO.
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Old 01-07-2003, 07:13 AM   #21
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Quote:
The Evo is geared for more top end
No, the Evo is geared for more low end. The power comes really early and the top speed is not very high, I believe the final drive on an Evo is 4.5. (and yes I have drove an Evo V before)

Quote:
the Sti here can easily get those numbers and its not a 2.5
300hp is not too hard to get from the standard "stateside" WRX either but reliability is the important part here. 300hp from the factory is awesome. Besides, the "stateside" STI has 300lb torque, and I am sure if a 2.0L engine running at 300hp is not going to have as much torque as the 2.5L version.
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Old 01-07-2003, 07:24 AM   #22
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Plus think about what tuners like Vishnu and TurboXS will get out of the 2.5l. That's 25% more displacement. I don't see any way the EVO can win performance wise, stock for stock, mod for mod, unless they also up the displacement.
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Old 01-07-2003, 07:34 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ashford
I checked out lancerforums.com for a bit. It's funny reading what they say about the Sti. Right now there seems to be a movement that Subaru didn't release the weight because it is close to 3500 lbs!!!

They forget that it is Mitsu that released the 3600 lb 3000gt vr4 and that car fell flat on it's face against similarly priced cars of the time (~45k).

A lot more are saying the EVO has a better suspension and more power, but that Mitsu is purposely underating the numbers.

Some more are complaining about the 2.5l displacement saying it would be a better car with a 2.0l.

Why can't people just realize Mitsu makes their money from screwing their customers. They screwed the entire US market by de-evolving the EVO for the US. Subaru on the other hand is doing what the enthusiasts want.
The Evo fans are complaining about the 2.5L and they get a freaking twin scroll turbo. Both give low end torque, but we get more reliabilty because we get displacement which can help with upgrades. The STi won't be a heavy pig, it'll probably be lighter than the WRX. The suspension on the STi will be inverted struts, how does the Evo stand a chance? Their arguement is weak!
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Old 01-07-2003, 07:44 AM   #24
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Can you really blame them though? I mean if we ended up getting the slower car there would be all sorts of people making excuses of why the STI is better.

Subaru, just when I though you couldn't get any worse(bug eyes, 5mt problems, etc, etc) you go and do something like this..........and TOTALLY redeem yourself!!!
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Old 01-07-2003, 07:46 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by DuoMaxwell
I hope you guys do not sit around and say Evo this and Evo that because I will let you know a little Secret! Top End even the STi will have a hard time staying up. The Evo is geared for more top end and the engine is well proven mod friendly monster. Don't underestimate the Evo, the minute you do your Sti will be sitting there wondering what just spanked you. Remember there is always someone faster...

Besides if that is the 04 stateside and the numbers are only 300 you guys need someone to get you a diff computer because the Sti here can easily get those numbers and its not a 2.5. I think they are short changing the power if you can get one here and hit 300 with ease then they definately have humbled that beast down IMHO.
You are saying that the Evo engine is better for mods? Have you seen what people have done with a 2.5L engine? It is proven to put out as much as 600 hp with good reliability. Too bad they had to do a swap for it though, here is some reference. http://cobbtuning.com/wrx/engineblock3.html http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=296098 http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=290082 http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=289423 Think about it, the 2.5L STi will come straight from the factory!
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