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Old 01-07-2003, 08:33 AM   #1
a2cpc
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Default SCCA Solo Class?

I wonder if he SCCA will create a new class for the STi? Something like STX was for the WRX, or will they just outlaw it?
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Old 01-07-2003, 08:53 AM   #2
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I think wrx was d stock.
I'd guess b stock or a stock for sti.
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Old 01-07-2003, 09:15 AM   #3
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According to a recent Fasttrack both the STi and the Evo have been specifically banned from STX (not that the STi would be legal anyways with a 2.5L). Most people are speculating they will be in BS. Not sure what SP class, maybe BSP and then SM

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Old 01-07-2003, 04:48 PM   #4
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Knowing the SCCA classing and their fear of the turbo and especially AWD cars, Super Stock wouldn't be a surprise either

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Old 01-07-2003, 05:40 PM   #5
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I'd be highly surprised if it goes into B-Stock... I think A-Stock, or even SS is more of a possibility. The only real data I have on these types of cars at an autocross was a Pro driver in an EVO VI, full JDM spec mon Hoosiers at a local event several years ago. He was within three tenths of a second from a national competitor in an RX7tt... and the RX7tt is still in SS right now. AND the new STi should be faster than the EVO VI...

So, we'll see... if it goes to B-Stock, it's the car to have BAR NONE.
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Old 01-07-2003, 06:24 PM   #6
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jason-you gonna use it for a street
car or solo car? I ordered one too.
several dozen folks ahead of me, tho.
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Old 01-07-2003, 08:21 PM   #7
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Street car mainly.... and ice-racing!

But if it gets classed favorably in stock I might think about running it, especially if we build our S2000 for road-racing. It would be a fun change to just have a tire trailer and load our gear into a sedan for events!
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Old 01-07-2003, 09:07 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrAWD
Knowing the SCCA classing and their fear of the turbo and especially AWD cars, Super Stock wouldn't be a surprise either

Mr. AWD
Hi. Nice to see you here.
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Old 01-07-2003, 09:33 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tony
Not sure what SP class, maybe BSP and then SM
That wouldn't really make sense, BSP has a higher index than SM, so in BSP you would be running a faster class with fewer mods allowed than in SM. Then again, not all the classing always makes sense. Let 'em run ESP!

My vote is for AS in stock. With all due respect to the STi, SS should be too much, those Z06s are fast. BS for the Evo. Not that I have a clue, but that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
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Old 01-07-2003, 09:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jason Saini
I'd be highly surprised if it goes into B-Stock... I think A-Stock, or even SS is more of a possibility. The only real data I have on these types of cars at an autocross was a Pro driver in an EVO VI, full JDM spec mon Hoosiers at a local event several years ago. He was within three tenths of a second from a national competitor in an RX7tt... and the RX7tt is still in SS right now. AND the new STi should be faster than the EVO VI...

So, we'll see... if it goes to B-Stock, it's the car to have BAR NONE.

Heh Peter Cunningham is no slouch of a driver also. Like I said on the mailing list, I think AS unless the Solo2 guys get scared and bump it to SS just to make sure it's not going to dominate a class.

I'm running SM next year in my WRX and basically this car on paper almost has me beat in stock form... You slap a bigger turbo on the car (APS SR40/50) and if the engine is strong you are talking 400+ hp with no problem...

I say let the thing run in ESP and combat the domestic muscle that benefit more from the ESP rules. Doubtful that will happen though.

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Old 01-08-2003, 10:24 AM   #11
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It would be very sweet to see STi in the ESP, but I don't believe that will happen ever. Pony guys are too scared of any technology that is around and prefer to run just among them selves. Even a DSMs where a threat to them at one point in time (this might come back tough ) and they where rumoring the idea of moving them to BSP as well. And all of the with barely 270 HP and way too small T25 turbo.

STi goes straight to BSP and it has a nice spot right there! Unless, SCCA decide that turbocharged AWD car is too much again and leave it in the ASP

For the stock, it is going to be tough. SS, AS, or BS! Maybe DS? That would be nice too, but that would be too much as well. I think that it will depend on the test results of the STi (slalom, lateral Gs and butt-o-meters). My guess would be SS (at least for the first year).

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Old 01-08-2003, 12:53 PM   #12
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Do you guys think the STi and Evo will definately be in the same class??
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Old 01-08-2003, 01:52 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by LuderChris
Do you guys think the STi and Evo will definately be in the same class??
Well, from the paper numbers, STi should be faster. The real comparison tests will show us how much (if so). If they end up even close to each other, they will be in the same class. Those two cars have very similar background (turbo, AWD, 4 door) and they will be together for sure. Of course if one of them blows the other ones doors off, they might get split, but I doubt that one!

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Old 01-08-2003, 02:11 PM   #14
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Default Wheel size impact

Someone from the other thred mentioned that STi wheels are 7.5" wide. That will have an affect on what size race tires will be able to fit there too for the Stock class. 245 Hoosiers will be a bit too much, and only 225 will fit in there. 245 Kumho will fit, but either way, car will be a bit "mushi" with those wider tires. Also, there will be no way to use 265 in any brand...

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Old 01-08-2003, 02:14 PM   #15
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That's the one benefit the EVO has is that it uses 17x8 wheels with 235 tires stock. I've been told it can run 255 tires fine with no rubbing anywhere. I still don't think they'll be in the same class. It seems solo2 people like to look at diffs to differentiate cars and the STi has a front LSD and the DCCD which might scare some people.
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Old 01-08-2003, 02:21 PM   #16
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There is no way that the STi will be competitive in BS against a well driven S2000 which already runs close to the Z06. The STi will be a mdfielder at best. The STi with its high center of gravity and narrow wheels has no chance.
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Old 01-08-2003, 02:28 PM   #17
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Fedja, you think 245 hoosiers on 7.5" wheels would be a problem? IMHO those would fit like a CHAMP. The 245 Kumhos fit ok on 6.5" wheels

With some of the degassed doubles, and the DCCD set at 75 rear 25 front, the STi would be a top car to have in BS at the PROs, but not at the Tours.

Same thing as the WRX now.

At the Pro Finale I was only 2 secs off the winning BS time in my DS WRX. I think a prepped STi is definetly 2 seconds faster over 60 seconds worth of ProSolo course then a WRX.

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Old 01-08-2003, 02:53 PM   #18
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Hi Tom!! Nice to see you here too!!

I used to run Kumho 245s on 7" rims and car was very weird. It is like you have a pillows underneath you and everything felt kind of soft. The same thing was noticed from the f-body guys running 265s on the 8" rims.

Kumhos are narrower than the Hoosiers and 245 Kumho goes as wide as the 225 Hoosier. So, using of the 245 Hoosiers on the 7.5" rims would give you an angled sidewall and same problems as I mentioned above. I am using 8.5" wheels with 245s and 9"s would be bad either.

Later!!

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Old 01-08-2003, 03:38 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by boxerT
There is no way that the STi will be competitive in BS against a well driven S2000 which already runs close to the Z06. The STi will be a mdfielder at best. The STi with its high center of gravity and narrow wheels has no chance.
The car is about .4" lower than the WRX and with its suspension shouldn't roll nearly as much. Not that you couldn't put a more autox friendly suspension on it in stock class. From a bench racing perspective, I think the STi would beat a S2000 on most courses. Jason Saini from above knows a bit about BS, since he was 2nd at nationals in the class... (In a S2000).
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Old 01-09-2003, 10:13 AM   #20
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LOL... 7.5" is not a narrow rim. The S2000 front rims are 6.5", now that's narrow. There won't be much difference in the 1/2" between the STi's 7.5's and the EVo's 8's. I'd much rather have the Sti's diffs than the Evo's wheels.

To be honest, and the more I think about it, this is definitely an A-Stock car. When I saw Peter run that EVO VI, it was the sloppiest, most rolly poly pig in the corners... but it ran as fast as an RX7tt. Three diffs CAN overcome allot of the high CG and soft suspension. If the suspension is tuned better than the EVO VI, then I expect this will be a VERY good car for A-Stock. We'll just have to wait and see. I don't mind if it goes to B-Stock, because then I'll have one of each! An S2000 and an STi!

-Jason Saini . Chicago, IL
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Old 01-09-2003, 11:32 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jason Saini
LOL... 7.5" is not a narrow rim. The S2000 front rims are 6.5", now that's narrow. There won't be much difference in the 1/2" between the STi's 7.5's and the EVo's 8's. I'd much rather have the Sti's diffs than the Evo's wheels.
7.5" is kind of a narrow rim, if you want to use 245 Hoosiers on them

What size/brand tires you are using on the S2000?

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Old 01-09-2003, 11:55 AM   #22
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We use 225/50/16 front and 245/45/16 Hoosiers rear... the rear rims are 7.5's, and our 245's work fine on there. However, they have a higher profile than the 245/40/17's which makes them easier to squeeze on the rims.

I think the 245's will work fine on the STi's rim. I don't think the wheels will be the weakest link on the car, the spring rates and CG will probably be it's weakest link.

I seem to remember the E36 M3 guys squeezing the 245/40's on the 17x7.5's and having good success. The 17" Boxster front wheels are 7.5, and they use the 245's to great success.

I dunno... I don't see the 7.5 as that big a deal... sure it would be nice if they were wider, but that's what Street Mod is for.

An STi would make a killer starting point for an SMod car, now wouldn't it!

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Old 01-09-2003, 01:10 PM   #23
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rumor straight from the top is BS
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Old 01-09-2003, 02:12 PM   #24
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IMO (and take this for what it's worth from an S2000 owner) I think this is a mistake... and here's why (and what my letter to the SEB will read):

1. Cars like the EVO and STi are unproven in competition here in the states, therefore should be classed one class higher based on the unknown. Therefore, cars considered for BS should be classed in AS and moved down if proven uncompetitive.

2. Cars with things like driver adjustable center diff are much better than they look on paper... I can't stress this enough - 3 LSD's will make this car wicked fast on the autocross course. Autocross is all about putting available power to the ground. The STi be close to flawless at this. Pick up a slight push? Put your foot to the floor instead of lift... the front diff will make the nose tuck in under power.

3. The S2000 and the STi are way too dissimilar in strengths and weaknesses. If it turns out the STi is the ProSolo dominator, and the S2000 is the Solo2 dominator it doesn't make for a good class. Just like the WRX and the TypeR, less people will run each car and each series because of the discrepancy. I think classing should be done not only by spec, but by car type... for me, this would be a far better solution:

Change the whole structure to something like this:

SS - Z06, 996, NSX, BoxsterS, E46 M3, C4 Vette, RX7tt - High hp RWD
AS - S2000, 350z, Boxster, RX8, Z4 - Mid hp RWD
BS - EVO, STi, S4, 225hp TT - High hp AWD
CS - Miata, Spyder - Low hp RWD
DS - Type R, Spec V, Mazdaspeed Protege, SRT4 - High hp FWD
ES - WRX, 180hp TT, Eclipse, etc. - Mid hp AWD
FS - Mustang/Camaro - Pony car (that will never change! )
GS - Prelude, Celica, RSX, CooperS, Corrado, - Mid hp FWD
HS - Mini, Civic, 318, etc - low hp FWD/RWD

I realize this is an oversimplification, but I hate course dependancy and there would be allot of course dependancy if the STi were in B-Stock. I also realize that this will never happen, but dare to dream!

-Jason Saini . Chicago, IL
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Old 01-09-2003, 03:35 PM   #25
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Interesting concept!! I see and recognize that you have a good point in grouping the cars that way. But, on the other side, I kind of enjoy ability to race against different type cars. Currently in SM, I was able to race against powerful FWD, even more so RWD cars and a lot of very strong AWD car too. Well, it does look like everything in SM is high HP based!

So, the same would go for example the current DS. AWD, FWD, and RWD car together fighting their battles and I personally enjoy this variety. On the other hand, I really don't like the current SS (or should I say ZO6) class and compare to the state that was a few years back with a lot of battles between the RX7, C4 (C5 - they didn't trust them at the time, but they would be competitive against the Mazda), and Porsche, can't even compare. But, that is just me and I know that a lot of other people like it the way it is. 50 or so ZO6s at Nationals more than proved that!

As of you saying that new unproven cars should go to a higher class, doesn't really makes sense. Also, if this should be used, than it should be applied to all the other new cars (350Z, Z4, G35,...), but somehow, I don't see that to happen! For some reason SCCA guys are afraid of anything that has a Turbo (or two) and god forbid if it comes with an AWD, it has to be bad and go to the tough class. I guess, we will see how dices are gona fall this time. We should all be ready to write a few letters to SEB!!

Anyway, good to hear from you here!!


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