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Old 01-07-2003, 10:43 PM   #1
rmbrady
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Question Is the USDM really that much better?

I'm wondering if everyone isn't getting a little too confident about the new car here. I want to believe that it will be the baddest thing on the road, and be way better than the JDM car, but I'm not sure. Perhaps Paul Hanson can help answer my question. A month ago here in Japan a magazine did dynos on all of the JDM cars that are rated at 276HP to see what they were really rated at. Of course one of the cars was the STi, albeit the previous bugeyed version. The dyno showed that the STi really had 302 HP and not the 276 claimed by Subaru, not really a surprise. I don't remeber the torque, so I can't make that comparison. But using the numbers from the magazine, it sounds like the JDM STi, has a minisule edge over the USDM version.

Now I realize that the modding potential is probably going to be greater for the USDM, but right out the box maybe the States won't have an advantage. I'm thinking that maybe performance will be the same, and we get the 2.5 because Subaru wanted to keep the performance the same around the world and not have the USDM be weaker. Or maybe the US is finally getting something that is cooler than everything else.
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Old 01-07-2003, 10:52 PM   #2
Jon [in CT]
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We'll likely never find out, given the difficulty of bringing together a JDM STi and a US STi at a dyno.
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Old 01-07-2003, 10:53 PM   #3
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Well Europe cant even get the DCCD as an option, but Japan market can, and now USDM as well. Thats big right there. I don't see how Suabru can keep screwing Europe on the DCCD though.
Thats really not going over well looking at the scoobynet boards as of yesterdays anouncment.

The 2.5 is not as big of deal, although the torque is going to be nice for the type of roads I drive.

JDM 302 hp vs USDM 2.5T 300hp

Keep in mind the octanes those numbers are based on, thats the reality of the 2.5 for the US market.
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Old 01-07-2003, 10:55 PM   #4
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JDM has been around 300hp for quite a while now - lots of other threads on the subject of paper numbers in Japan and reality - but the torque has only recently reached the 285ft/lb level. So the USDM still makes 15 more ft/lb's than the JDM 2.0 in the newest and fastest STi.

However, peak numbers won't tell the whole story. It's what kind of power and torque that is being developed before and after peak that will make all the difference in the world, and the 2.5-litre more than likely makes more power than the JDM 2.0 from idle onwards. It may not have the high-rpm power of the 2.0-litre. Of course, with the extra 500cc's of displacement, it may, even if it does drop off faster than the 2.0 in a relative manner.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
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Old 01-07-2003, 11:03 PM   #5
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Speaking from my experiance with the displacement, SOHC, and T3/T4 turbo the torque is incredible. The peak numbers maybe the same, but that doesnt mean the 2.0T will pull out of the corners in any gear like the 2.5T will.

-Chav
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Old 01-07-2003, 11:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by shirokuma
However, peak numbers won't tell the whole story. It's what kind of power and torque that is being developed before and after peak that will make all the difference in the world
Exactly. Think about the area under the torque curve - that is what tells the story about real drivability, not the peak horsepower numbers. The extra displacement is likely to create a whole lot more area under the torque curve.

A Honda S2000 makes 240 peak horsepower and weighs about 2800 pounds whereas a stock WRX makes 13 less peak horsepower and weighs in a few hundred pounds more, yet both cars are very close in their quarter mile sprints. Why? Because the WRX's forced induction motor gives it a fatter torque curve.
A 4.6 liter Ford V8 makes a little less peak horsepower than a stock WRX, but when you mash the gas it has instant throttle response...
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Old 01-07-2003, 11:07 PM   #7
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I've noticed that the torque and horsepower peaks given for the US STi are at the exact same rpms as for the US WRX, namely peak torque at 4000 rpm and peak horsepower at 6000 rpm. This suggests to me that the US STi has a similar redline rpm as the US WRX, namely about 7000 rpm. This would not surprise me, given the longer stroke of the EJ25.

I suspect that the area under the torque curve, which is a good indication of which will "feel" stronger, will be much greater for the US STi than for the JDM STi.
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Old 01-07-2003, 11:22 PM   #8
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And we get the DCCD as standard.
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Old 01-07-2003, 11:33 PM   #9
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Who cares? We're in the U.S., the JDM car is in Japan. The STi will be a fabulous car for this market, as I'm sure the JDM car is for that market.

Kevin
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Old 01-07-2003, 11:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Glenn Wallace
And we get the DCCD as standard.
Just curious how you can say that. I know you have a lot of info that you have been sharing but no one knows what the options will be. I am sure you already know that DCCD is not standard in Japan but an option.
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Old 01-07-2003, 11:40 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by prost893


Just curious how you can say that. I know you have a lot of info that you have been sharing but no one knows what the options will be. I am sure you already know that DCCD is not standard in Japan but an option.
AND how much does the STi weigh????????
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Old 01-07-2003, 11:46 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by LuderChris


AND how much does the STi weigh????????
Beats me I wish I knew.
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Old 01-08-2003, 12:33 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by prost893


Just curious how you can say that. I know you have a lot of info that you have been sharing but no one knows what the options will be. I am sure you already know that DCCD is not standard in Japan but an option.
Quote:
Driver-Adjustable All-Wheel Drive
WRX STi is equipped with the brand's most performance-directed All-Wheel Drive system with DCCD (Driver Control
Center Differential). In automatic mode, the computer varies the front/rear torque split automatically depending on
driving conditions and driver input. In manual mode, the DCCD system allows the driver to vary the front-to-rear
torque distribution for different driving conditions. Using a small control wheel on the car's center console, the driver
can set the system to transfer as much as 65 percent of available torque to the rear wheels to increase handling
agility. Impreza WRX STi employs a new Suretrac® limited-slip front differential and a mechanical limited-slip rear
differential. The Suretrac differential is a gearless unit that responds to a torque differential between left and right
wheels to increase traction and reduce understeer.
^^^ from the official press release up to in this forum
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Old 01-08-2003, 12:41 AM   #14
aspera
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Default questions that need answered

1. bore?
2. stroke?
3. compression?
4. redline?
5. boost?
6. tune? (has the Yankee Rex been tuned like the USDM WRX, tapering boost on the high and low ends of the chart?)

I'm curious to find out how much room Subaru has left for improvement. Can boost be brought on sooner: go higher: and be held for longer?
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Old 01-08-2003, 01:07 AM   #15
liigod
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to answer your question on the title, yes... yes it is.
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Old 01-08-2003, 09:03 AM   #16
briank
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Default Redline and why the 2.5?

Quote:
Originally posted by aspera
4. redline?
Based on looking at the picture of the Tach that is on the Subaru page: You can see the orange hash marks from 9 to 8000 and maybe beyond but the wall of the gauge blocks the hash marks. They also mention that the gauges swing to their max position apon starting the car. In that picture the needle looks to have swung to 7000rpms. So its either 7500 or 7000, the latter being more likely.


And to comment on why we got the 2.5. I don't think it was entirely to reward the US for buying so many WRXs, nor was it to best the JDM STi. I think the 2.5L engine was just the most effective way to get past 91 octane gas and emissions laws. They use the 2.0 in Japan because WRC rules require that you sell so many of a car with that engine (1000?). There's no NEED to use a 2.0 in the US market. They already sell enough 2.0's in other markets or on the base model WRX.

Ramble on....

-BrianK
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Old 01-08-2003, 10:05 AM   #17
MrAWD
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Default Re: questions that need answered

Quote:
Originally posted by aspera
1. bore?
2. stroke?
3. compression?
4. redline?
5. boost?
6. tune? (has the Yankee Rex been tuned like the USDM WRX, tapering boost on the high and low ends of the chart?)

I'm curious to find out how much room Subaru has left for improvement. Can boost be brought on sooner: go higher: and be held for longer?
To add a few to the list that are really imprtant too:
7. camber front/rear
8. caster front/rear
9. adjutability for both
10. rims size
11. spring rates
12. lag/responsivnes

Mr. AWD
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Old 01-11-2003, 06:43 PM   #18
aspera
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Default I started a thread

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