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Old 01-08-2003, 12:12 PM   #1
M3GTR
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Arrow US Spec STi vs. US Spec Mitsu evo

I don't know how much everyone has been following up on the specs for the evo thats coming to the US as well, but I just checked it out and it seems the STi is in a whole different league than the evo. In the middle of last year magazines were saying how the evo was going to be better than the sti as far as performance and overall quality but they were sooooo wrong. The specs for the evo coming to the US are a 2.0 DOHC 16 valve inline-4 pushing 271 bhp. Lets compare that to the STi's 2.5 boxer type engine with valve timing pushing out 300bhp. They both have brembo's and the mitsu site doesn't say anything about the suspension, but we all know how hard it would be to match the STi suspension. When everything is tallied up I think the US spec STi will kill the evo on the market, even though we don't know either of the MSRPs it seems as if their wont be much difference in price, for such a difference in quality performance. If anyone else wants to check out the specs for the new evo, they are at http://www.mitsubishicars.com/MMSA/jsp/evo/index.jsp
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Old 01-08-2003, 12:43 PM   #2
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The Sti will probably be 3k or so more than the Evo. The Evo retains the exact suspension setting as the j-spec Evo 8. The US Evo just doesn't have acd/ayc, which really isn't that big of a deal. I think the Sti may turn out to be a little quicker but the Evo will be a little better handling. Plus the Evo will make over 300hp pretty easy. So they are pretty comparable. The pluses with the Sti are more hp to start with and the 6-speed..bur you are paying extra for them. The Evos 5-speed is a good tranny though and is beefed up (had double/triple synchros)
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Old 01-08-2003, 12:53 PM   #3
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the EVO without ACD/AYC is a big problem.... the ACD is even more important then AYC, cuz it's the ACD that makes the car fun to drive...


while the STi have DCCD as standard....
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Old 01-08-2003, 02:01 PM   #4
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I just want to comment why buy a sti and pay over MSRP. Buy an evo for MSRP and a lower sticker price .

Nearly 1g on the skid not good enough?
Twin scroll turbo with 2.1 turn lock to lock.

Be realistic, they are both awesome cars. And we really wouldn't know which one handles better until after the track test between the two.

What worries me about the sti is the weight. It wasn't announced so you probably can guess why. Pricing is a concern of course.

Our WRx weights more than the JDM due to bumpers and the regular sti is not light. We have air and everything and not a S202.

THe 2.5L seems to be a monster. What will happen if we upgrade it? Maybe more torque than we wanted and breaking the 6-speeed and DCCD? Also the cylinder walls will be thinner. Just things to consider.

NO offical release date so no sale for me. I could be pushed back far enough until Mitusbishi counter strikes with something better.
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Old 01-08-2003, 02:01 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by StreetTribe_V35
the EVO without ACD/AYC is a big problem.... the ACD is even more important then AYC, cuz it's the ACD that makes the car fun to drive...


while the STi have DCCD as standard....
Well that is the question that will be answered for sure once the cars get tested against each other.
So, think of the US STi vs. US EVO vs. JDM STi vs. JDM EVO8 test to come!! E36 M3 doesn't have an AWD nor active drivetrain, but still handles damn good! We will know soon! Until then, there will be just rumors...

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Old 01-08-2003, 04:12 PM   #6
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Mitsubishi is one of the leaders in gasoline direct injection technology. I would suspect that Mitsubishi is working feverishly on a bigger bore engine with direct injection for the US market. That should make the torque wars between Subaru and Mitsu interesting.
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Old 01-08-2003, 04:26 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by gtr
I just want to comment why buy a sti and pay over MSRP. Buy an evo for MSRP and a lower sticker price .
My experience says: STi for MSRP, EVO - crazy dealers preparing ground for a huuuuge markups. So a little different then yours.

Quote:
Be realistic, they are both awesome cars. And we really wouldn't know which one handles better until after the track test between the two.
Agree here. I prefer STi because I can get one at MSRP and it's better in a stock trim. I'll try not to go all crazy about modding so STi sounds better.

Quote:
What worries me about the sti is the weight. It wasn't announced so you probably can guess why. Pricing is a concern of course.
I hope it will be close to EVO and not more. But we'll see.
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Old 01-08-2003, 04:30 PM   #8
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I've been on the Evo microsite and I believe I somewhere read or heard that the price will be around the $28K's.

I'm not 100% sure, I do like the Evo's site better than the Sti's, they have the whole video of the unveiling of the car.

Anyway, it does look like the Sti will be in a whole different level!!

STi rules!!!
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Old 01-08-2003, 06:31 PM   #9
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It seems a like a lot of people are going crazy about the DCCD thing. Yes the EVO, won't have their ACD ... but how many people are really going to use their DCCD?

From what I've heard is that the ACD on the EVO is computer controlled and will dynamically vary the torque bias front to rear. In reality, you may want more rear torque at the beginning of the turn (to induce oversteer) and more AWD towards the end of a turn (allowing more throttle sooner). Don't quote me on this, I may have it backwards ...

Thoughts?

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Old 01-08-2003, 06:37 PM   #10
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Anyone who lives where it snows could get good use out of the DCCD. Leave it open in good weather, and lock it out for bad.
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Old 01-08-2003, 06:46 PM   #11
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Quote:
Also the cylinder walls will be thinner.
Unless you have seen the casting, this is probably a false assumption.

Just because an engine has a larger bore doesn't mean the cylinder walls are thinner.

Glenn
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Old 01-08-2003, 07:41 PM   #12
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the evo8 is just not as good as the STi...

but it's still a great car...couple thousands less...different taste..

i hope the streets won't be crowded w/ STi all over...
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Old 01-08-2003, 08:35 PM   #13
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Default Price will be the deciding factor for most

I'm a huge Subaru fan and give props to them for coming out with the gloves off. I was going to purchase a 2003 WRX but wanted to wait for the STi after seeing the Evo. I was at the Petter Solberg chat and the subie reps did mention $32K. Along with a markup of say $1000 and up and taxes, it's out of my reach. I then called my mitsu dealer and asked about the Evo. They wanted a $1,000 markup on top of the $28K Msrp. I knew I'd be stretching but I decided to go for it. After taxes i'm looking at $33K the most out the door. That's the STi without a radio not including tax. I'm sure alot of people are in my situation. I wouldn't have minded if they brought over the 2.0L STi w/o DCCD. I would have been there.
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Old 01-08-2003, 08:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by gtr
What worries me about the sti is the weight. It wasn't announced so you probably can guess why. Pricing is a concern of course.

Our WRx weights more than the JDM due to bumpers and the regular sti is not light. We have air and everything and not a S202.

THe 2.5L seems to be a monster. What will happen if we upgrade it? Maybe more torque than we wanted and breaking the 6-speeed and DCCD? Also the cylinder walls will be thinner. Just things to consider.

NO offical release date so no sale for me. It could be pushed back far enough until Mitusbishi counter strikes with something better.
Given the weight of the WRX that passes those safety laws, it's unlikely that the STi is going to be much heavier than it's JDM counterpart. The WRX and STi were designed from the beginning for international safety standards. The Evo VII was not - thus the weight difference once exported.

A 2.5-litre turbo motor isn't brand new to the Subaru world - JUN has been building 500-550hp 2.5-litres for a rather long time now. While this motor is untested in the public, I don't doubt it'll be as reliable, or more reliable, than the 2.0-litre STi motor due to the lower stresses on the motor in stock form.

They haven't announced the day it's going to be released, but it will be there around the beginning of summer.

Reality check here. The USDM Evo 8 and the USDM STi are going to be close in weight. The STi does make more power stock. The STi does come with a 6-speed and DCCD. The STi will cost more. You get what you pay for with either car, so if you can stretch for the extra of the STi, you are not losing out, and if you prefer the Evo 8, you aren't losing out either.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
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Old 01-08-2003, 08:51 PM   #15
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Not to pretend to be an authority on which is better here. I've followed the battle btw Evo and STI for years, watched a ton of Japan's well respected Best Motoring videos on countless comparison on different road surface and track.

The EVO rules, 80% of the time. W/o ACD/AYC? No problem. It kicked STI's butt for years without it. And for some time, the EVO VII RS, from which the ACD/AYC were diliberately taken off to save weight, was the badest.

The consistent conclusion is that the EVO is more raw and pure performance oriented. It'll give you an somewhat unpleasant ride but it'll win on the track.

What SOA has to offer us is very good indeed. BUT never ditch the EVO just because it has better spec on paper. Sure it's superb marketing advantage when shoppers compare specs but what some of us purist have to bear in mind is. The EVO is hard to beat. But of course, the STI does look very promising indeed.
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Old 01-08-2003, 09:03 PM   #16
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Quote:
And for some time, the EVO VII RS, from which the ACD/AYC were diliberately taken off to save weight, was the badest
Uh, I've seen an EVO VII RS with ACD.

Glenn
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Old 01-08-2003, 09:28 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by gtr
THe 2.5L seems to be a monster. What will happen if we upgrade it? Maybe more torque than we wanted and breaking the 6-speeed and DCCD? Also the cylinder walls will be thinner. Just things to consider.
Did not i read that the 2.5L is also uses a semi-closed block?
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Old 01-08-2003, 09:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Broeli
The Evos 5-speed is a good tranny though and is beefed up (had double/triple synchros)
Do syncros really have anything to do with the strength of the tranny? They're just there to make sure you get into gear easily correct?

-BrianK
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Old 01-09-2003, 01:38 AM   #19
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With regards to the EVO-RS ... the ACD and AYC are optional feature.

On a different note ... no one really knows how well the STI 2.5 block is being built (it would be nice if they some strong rods and pistons), but the 4G63 has been around for a while in both the JDM and USDM. There are quite a number of DSMs running 91 octane and in the 10s and 11s (and yes, being a few 100 lbs. lighter helps).

For myself, i'm really torn ... i'm #1 on an EVO list and #5 on an STI list ... oh the agony of picking between two great cars. (and i'll be keeping my Vishnu Stage 2 WRX for a daily driver)
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Old 01-09-2003, 01:49 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by CupertinoSteve
On a different note ... no one really knows how well the STI 2.5 block is being built (it would be nice if they some strong rods and pistons)
Steve, we already know we are getting the goods. Exactly how good is yet to be determined, but it certainly doesn't look like they held back

Directly from the US STi site:

The 2.5-liter horizontally opposed ("boxer") four-cylinder engine is based on a specially reinforced "semi-closed deck" engine block with forged aluminum alloy pistons, forged high-carbon steel connecting rods and sodium filled exhaust valves. This advanced powerplant incorporates Subaru AVCS (Active Valve Control System) variable valve timing technology to optimize the engine's volumetric efficiency throughout the rev band. This is the first application of this technology on a Subaru in North America. The large capacity intercooler includes a manually operated water spray feature to provide additional cooling.
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Old 01-09-2003, 04:08 AM   #21
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Default EVO VIII thumbs -- sideways review?

Some EVO VIII love, well maybe not.....
http://autozine.kyul.net/0_News/Late...News_frame.htm

"First of all, donít be too excited to see the "Evo VIII" nameplate, because this Evo VIII is somewhat a Federalized version of the current Evo VII aiming for the USA market. The "real" Evo VIII - we are talking about Japanese version - will arrive later in the year and is likely to have a 6-speed gearbox. In contrast, this US version has 5-speed only, like Evo VII.

In enthusiasts point of view, the US-version Evo VIII is by all means inferior to the current Evo VII. First of all, tuned to meet the LEV regulation, power output of its 4G63 engine drops from 280hp to 271hp (SAE) while torque reduces from 282 to 273lbft. On the other hand, the US-spec bumpers and other modifications raises kerb weight from 1400 to 1480kg, deteriorating performance further. There is no official performance, but expect 0-60mph will take around 5.5 seconds instead of the current 4.7 seconds.

However, the biggest disappointment is the discard of ACD active center differential and AYC active yaw control, which make the Evo VII so sharp in cornering. In place of them are an ordinary viscous-coupling center LSD and a mechanical rear LSD respectively. Luckily, Brembo brakes are retained.

The only improvement is probably its look - the new corporate grille and bumpers look smarter than before. The shape of rear spoiler is mostly unaltered, but they are now made of carbon-fiber.

The birth of US-legal Lancer Evo is probably triggered by the success of Impreza WRX over there. Mitsubishi hopes this world-famous model will improve the image of the company, which has been seen as dull after the death of 3000GT VR4. The car will be shown in Detroit Motor Show this month and will go on sale in the first half. The company expects it will capture 6,500 units of sales in the first year, about the same as those sold to other countries (including home market) combined. Seems like a good business"
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Old 01-09-2003, 07:18 AM   #22
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Evo will at least do sub 5s in 0-60 there is no question about it. I have driven an Evo V and with the short gearing the start from standing still is exceptional.

I do have to say the new USDM Evo is quite ugly compare to the JDM Evo VII. Especially the GTA (Altezza) tail light, very untasteful.
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Old 01-09-2003, 07:20 AM   #23
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Default Re: Price will be the deciding factor for most

Quote:
Originally posted by s4awd
I was at the Petter Solberg chat and the subie reps did mention $32K. Along with a markup of say $1000 and up and taxes, it's out of my reach.
You don't have to pay a markup to get an STi. It took me less than a day to find a dealer that guaranteed no markup in writing. That dealer being two blocks down my street is a bonus.
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Old 01-09-2003, 11:04 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hanzo
Evo will at least do sub 5s in 0-60 there is no question about it. I have driven an Evo V and with the short gearing the start from standing still is exceptional.

I do have to say the new USDM Evo is quite ugly compare to the JDM Evo VII. Especially the GTA (Altezza) tail light, very untasteful.

I don't know about under 5 seconds but I think the Evo will be an extremely fast handling car.
Sports Car Compact tested the Euro Evo VII and got 5.2 seconds 0-60; however that car had unofficially 300 hp - 70 more a stock rex on the dyno, and weighed 150 pounds less than the VIII, so......

Still it did beat a WRX with Vishnu stage 1 fairly handily.
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/fe...207scc_versus/
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Old 01-09-2003, 11:23 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by CupertinoSteve
With regards to the EVO-RS ... the ACD and AYC are optional feature.
Not true!

Since EVO 7, every model came out with the ACD. Only AYC was an option and it still is.


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