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Old 01-09-2003, 09:25 AM   #1
rexspeedworthy
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Default So, my 10 year old son says...

as I'm online looking at the pics of the new STI,
"How can you like that,Dad, the wing on that is even
bigger than the one on that Honda that you make fun
of all the time. " He also asked it they made the hood
scoop bigger so you change the oil

Thought this was a funny story to share because
it came from a non biased child.

Do the features need to be exaggerated?
If so why. ?
I love all the #'s on this new STI and maybe
trade in my rex for one, but can the wing be
"fixed" cheaply? I could probably live with the
scoop.
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Old 01-09-2003, 09:42 AM   #2
rexspeedworthy
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oops I just found the big wing thread and it
pretty much answers all the ??"s have.
Sorry to have wasted anyone's time.
So is there a big scoop thread?
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Old 01-09-2003, 10:02 AM   #3
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bigger scoop to allow more air to hit the larger-than-the-wrx intercooler that comes on the STi. I wouldn't change it since it is that large for a reason. If it REALLY bothers you, than get a front mount intercooler and get a hood w/o the scoop.

cheers!

chris
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Old 01-09-2003, 10:49 AM   #4
Red-Impreza
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Talking

Quote:
Do the features need to be exaggerated?
Here's a thought, "THEY DON'T." It seems to me that the wing and scoop are styling cues taken from the rally cars to please the "hip" 18-35 year old demographic that the automakers seem to court these days. What do you suppose would happen if you replaced the hood scoop and wing with the stock WRX versions? In my opinion, nothing. Except that you'd be able to look an adult in the eye when it's your turn to drive without having to give that I-dare-you-to-make-fun-of-my-wing partial grin.

Oh, and all you STi zealots who say "if you don't want the wing, then you don't want an STi" just keep your mouths shut. We don't need to hear from anybody who's not done wind tunnel testing. If anyone has actual figures from someone who's done actual science on the subject, please contribute. All others, just admit to yourselves that it's a styling thing and get over it. If you like it, fine. Some people like country music. Personally, I don't. That doesn't mean I think all country music is bad. I know there are some very tallented country music artists. I just don't buy their records.

If it turns out that it really does make that big a difference, well then I might just swap them for track days. I already own three sets of wheels and tires for my RS: 1 set for street, 1 set for autocross/track, and one set for rallycross/dirt. It wouldn't take that long to mount and unmount a wing. I just don't imagine it would generate that much down force at street speeds.

It's funny how sometimes it takes the words of a child to start an adult discussion. ("Change the oil," I like that one. I thought it was to keep low flying birds off the wind screen. )

(If there's been some actual science quoted in the "big wing" thread, then I appologize. I lost interest in that thread when the religious war started.)
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Old 01-09-2003, 11:04 AM   #5
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I think you need to realize what happens to a car that's capable of doing 160+, maybe your RS won't go that fast so you don't know, but the STi wing is high enough to actually be of use. And yes I'm all for wind tunnel testing. And I know what .31 to .42 cd (with and without factory wings, spoilers, etc) feels like at speeds past 160 and even how lowering your car 1" can make a hell of a difference in top end.
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Old 01-09-2003, 11:04 AM   #6
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Default wait for a wagon...

Whether its an STi Impreza version, or the much-rumored Legacy turbo wagons (hopefully also offered in an STi version), this will resolve any large wing issues. This is what I'll be waiting for in 2005 timeframe (give or take), and since you have a 10yr old, all the more reason to get a wagon... Although I may be biased on the grocery-getters....

<---------

Last edited by MudBoogers; 01-09-2003 at 01:17 PM.
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Old 01-09-2003, 11:16 AM   #7
rexspeedworthy
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Would a small wing above the rear window with no
opening work?
I think we got the wing cause the Japs see some of us
americans with triple decker wing on some Honda and
stangs and whatever. They'll fix it.
sti wing=heritage and tradition
WRONG!!
Then why no 2.0?
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Old 01-09-2003, 01:08 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Red-Imp

Here's a thought, "THEY DON'T." It seems to me that the wing and scoop are styling cues taken from the rally cars to please the "hip" 18-35 year old demographic that the automakers seem to court these days.
I am 19 and I actually dont like it all that much. I am just fine with my 02 rex.
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Old 01-09-2003, 02:21 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Red-Imp

If anyone has actual figures from someone who's done actual science on the subject, please contribute.
Not sure if this counts as "actual science" in your book.
http://www.autospeed.co.nz/A_1055/P_4/article.html

-Gerlando.
www.wrxtuners.com
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Old 01-09-2003, 03:44 PM   #10
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Regarding the big scoop... it's not just a styling que... because most of us don't drive our cars at high speeds all the time, there wouldn't be enough air getting into the intercooler with the WRX sized scoop. The rally car has the WRX sized scoop because it is driving really fast most of the time. At low speeds you need to "scoop" up a lot more air to keep the intercooler cool.

The Japanese testers of the JDM STi said they could see the wing vibrate at high speeds on the track and the car felt more stable. http://www.apexjapan.com/news/sti8/sti8.html

Yes, the features are big, but at least there isn't a GIANT alluminum GT Wing on the back like all the local Cavaliers and Sunfires have.
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Old 01-09-2003, 03:49 PM   #11
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Default Size of hood scoop

According to Car or Evo, the hood scoop is bigger than on the WRC cars (for drag reasons and probably the previously mentioned speed issue).

Also, somebody blamed the size of the scoop on Osama Bin Laden. They were supposed to have the final meeting to decide the size immediately after 9/11/01, but it was cancelled...

- peter
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Old 01-09-2003, 06:54 PM   #12
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The reason the scoop is smaller on the rally car is because the rally car has a FMIC, not a TMIC. The scoop on the rally car directs air to an oil cooler, IIRC.

Gots nothing to do with speed....

Cheers,
Grant

And personally, I don't the giant scoop...reminds me too much of the fake scoops on all the Mustangs around here.
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Old 01-09-2003, 06:58 PM   #13
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i read somewhere that most intercoolers only require 25mph car speed, to work to full potential, so i dont htink high speeds is a factor, rather the amount of surface area of the intercooler exposed to outside airflow
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Old 01-09-2003, 07:49 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Red-Imp

It seems to me that the wing and scoop are styling cues taken from the rally cars to please the "hip" 18-35 year old demographic that the automakers seem to court these days.
I must be doing something right, i am 37 and still think it looks awesome!

The rear wing, front splitter setup is to counteract lift at speed. The faster you go, the more the car tries to take off due to its natural shape causing a low presure area on the roof, thus trying to lift the car. The wings/front bumper assembly are designed to give an equal force in the oposite direction, so the car stays planted on the road. It makes the car much more stable than if it were not there.

The big intercooler scoop is to improve airflow at high speed, to stop the air from becoming detached from entering the intercooler. One of the problems on the earlier Impreza range is that the air stalls at high speed and doesnt flow through the intercooler, so your charge temps go through the roof. It is functional.
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Old 01-09-2003, 11:44 PM   #15
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You guys need to remember that it's an STi. The big scoop and wing, funtional at speed or not, are part of the rally-inspired look.

Also, Subaru states that the STi wing is fully functional so they put it there for a purpose.

Bottom line is that it wouldn't be an STi without the wing. It's about time they put a decent wing on an Impreza (stock).
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Old 01-10-2003, 12:08 AM   #16
hotrod
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Default my tests

Well my tests with thermometers on the TMIC of the 2002 WRX tells me any speed over 35 mph is good enough to give you all the cooling you need.

That appears to be the "turn on speed" for good flow to pass through the IC. Below that speed very little temperature change occurs.

Larry
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Old 01-10-2003, 12:24 AM   #17
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I've seen wind tunnel figures from Prodrive on several different wings. The STI size wings DO make a difference. However, I personally don't like the huge wings and if I end up getting an STI I'll most likely trade trunk lids with a WRX or RS for either their spoiler or no spoiler at all. Will the car be less stable at very high speeds, yes. Since I'd rarely take my car over 100, and if so it'll just be on a flat, fairly straight road that won't really matter to me. If you're into traveling at high speeds through some hard corners then you may get some good use out of the STI wing.

Last edited by AKGC8; 01-10-2003 at 12:29 AM.
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Old 01-10-2003, 12:31 AM   #18
Red-Impreza
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Cool Wow! I didn't realize I'd start such a discussion

OK, let me clarify my position a little. First, I don't hate the wing. In fact I like it on the rally car. Unfortunately, a huge rear wing been made in to a symbol of a juvenile car owner by, well... juvenile car owners. It's tainted the style and it can attract undesirable attention.

Won't a BMW M3 do 160? It doesn't seem to need a biplane on the trunk.

Quote:
I think you need to realize what happens to a car that's capable of doing 160+
Well, you're right about one think. I don't really know what it feels like, but I've got a pretty good handle on the physics. I understand the purpose of airfoils and ground effects on a car, thanks.

Quote:
Not sure if this counts as "actual science" in your book.
It's a lot closer then most of what I've seen on this board. It makes a good qualitative argument that the wing is functional. Good contribution, thanks.

So here's another thought. The WRX is capable of, what 140, 145 (I don't recall where it's limited at)? The new one has the same rear spoiler as the old one, right? The 2004 model will have the same body style as the STi, right? So, I'd have to imagine that the STi, with a WRX rear spoiler would be plenty stable to the same speeds. Don't you agree?

However, I'd still like to see some numbers on how much down force the wing provides across the range of applicible speeds. I'd also like to see the increase in the temperature of the intake charge and subsequent loss of HP with a WRX sized hood scoop. I doubt the loss would bother anybody driving at sane speeds on the street.

Now, track days are something entirely different.
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Old 01-10-2003, 12:35 AM   #19
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Oh no, not another thread about this. I have no idea why the STi scoop is bigger. I would imagine it has to do with cooling. It's certainly not good for aerodynamics, which is one of the reasons for the monster wing. I'll never understand why people make fun of functional body parts. Can you imagine popping your hood and someone laughing at your intercooler. I don't care if it helps cooling, it makes the engine bay look more cluttered. My car still runs fine without it, I don't see the problem.

JC
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Old 01-10-2003, 12:38 AM   #20
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Default Re: Wow! I didn't realize I'd start such a discussion

Quote:
Originally posted by Red-Imp
it's a lot closer then most of what I've seen on this board. It makes a good qualitative argument that the wing is functional. Good contribution, thanks.

So here's another thought. The WRX is capable of, what 140, 145 (I don't recall where it's limited at)? The new one has the same rear spoiler as the old one, right? The 2004 model will have the same body style as the STi, right? So, I'd have to imagine that the STi, with a WRX rear spoiler would be plenty stable to the same speeds. Don't you agree?
You obviously didn't read the other thread which has that link as well as wind tunnel data. In addtion to explaining why the STi spoiler is more effective and the STi is different than the WRX. I'll sum up for you. The tall wing reaches into "better" airflow and the STi has a different front end and hood scoop.

JC
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Old 01-10-2003, 12:42 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by YoungWilliams
The reason the scoop is smaller on the rally car is because the rally car has a FMIC, not a TMIC. The scoop on the rally car directs air to an oil cooler, IIRC.
The hood scoop on the WRC car directs air into the air filter box, the oil cooler is fed by ducts in the headlights.
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Old 01-10-2003, 02:51 AM   #22
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Just wanted to say I actually like the big wing, although the new scoop could use some work. It's shaped strange.

And yeah, it's a huge wing spoiler, but it looks integrated with the car. Not, like someone mentioned earlier, the aluminum wings you see bolted on to anything that'll sit still for five minutes.
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