Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday July 12, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Normally Aspirated Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-24-2001, 06:05 PM   #1
Basshead
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 112
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Snohomish, WA
Vehicle:
2011 Jetta TDI
Black

Post us wrx ej20 --> RS engine swap

The new WRX's are using the same tranny case as our RS's...which would make for a nice and easy engine swap...Has anyone had experience looking at the engine mounts on the new WRX to see if everything is aligned the same also??...or if the engine and it's elements are utilizing the wider platform too much?...cause damn, new tranny internals, a lsd, and the ej20 from a wrecked WRX coupled with our lighter car should make some cheap "sleeper" RS's...
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Basshead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2001, 06:28 PM   #2
Marcin
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2874
Join Date: Nov 2000
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Wood Dale IL
Vehicle:
2005 CGM WRX WGN
Jorge Tunned BattleWagon

Post

Come on, talk to us people.
Think of the possibilities.
Marcin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2001, 06:35 PM   #3
98mpreziveRS
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 972
Join Date: Feb 2000
Post

guys... 2nd gear will STILL blow out on you with hard driving..so tranny upgrade will be necessary if it uses the current RS unhardend internals

you WILL need the WRX ECU and have that installed/mated to the ecu in your RS. same thing as a japanese motor. you may or may not need the crossmember..although i am 99.99% sure that you WILL need it. the turbo cross member can also be found on the earlier legacy GT's and can IIRC be modified to fit. The motor mounts on the NEW WRX have not changed much if any. the motor is identical excpet for japan getting the calve timing.

you will face the same challenges present if you do a Jap. STI or such swap. just with hopefully a cheaper motor there are more things required..but i am not going to cover them here..this was just a quickie answer from a "traitor"


[This message has been edited by 98mpreziveRS (edited February 24, 2001).]
98mpreziveRS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2001, 06:35 PM   #4
markus
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 438
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: St. Albert, AB, Canada
Vehicle:
2004 STi
White on Gold

Post

For the amount of money you are going to spend for a brand new WRX motor and the install, you could easily turbo the EJ25 in your Impreza and it will SMOKE the WRX.

The additional 25% displacement and carrying 250+lbs less weight should convince you.
markus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2001, 06:38 PM   #5
98mpreziveRS
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 972
Join Date: Feb 2000
Post

yes..but the WRX motor with an upgraded turbo charger, new piping, some sort of piggy back ECU like a possum bourne link or such, AND bigger injectors and pump should get some killer HP levels..easier to do that than get comparable in the RS motor..BUT again..cheaper to start with the RS motor and turbo that big guy..but later on the WRX motor will cost less and abudance of parts world wide..so make the choice yourself..and search for WRX engine swap in powertrain..i have been involved in many conversations on this whole situation as well as many others in that forum.
98mpreziveRS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2001, 07:50 PM   #6
Digital_Boy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 730
Join Date: Jan 2000
Post

A turbo EJ25 will be a torque monster. The EJ25's can crank out 500+ lb/ft of torque in a surprisingly docile driving package. True, this is running 114 octane race gas, but these same engines were broken in on 92 octane unleaded, and performance was down only moderately.

Don't diss the EJ25 simply because it's not a 9K screamer. For a street,auto-x, rally and drag car, a turbo EJ25 makes a lot more sense, since those applications favor cars with lots of low end grunt.


Digital_Boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2001, 07:52 PM   #7
Bob O
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1502
Join Date: May 2000
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Felton, PA, USA
Vehicle:
2000 2.5RS & SV1kS
BRP

Thumbs up

Although there are merits to the turbo'ed ej25, you are going to compromise longevity to some point as the engine was never meant to handle those higher stresses. I mean you know that the engineers designed the 2.5 at some expected life with certain stresses in mind. Depending on the factors of safety on the design loads and where they aimed on the fatigue curve and how long it will noramlly live under those condistions you could be fine or your engine might have an early demise.

All that said, given that the 2.5 engine in some form will be in the 2002 RS model with the new body style, a swap should definetly be possible. I guess it really depends on which engine went through the most changes in going to the new model, if any. You still might be looking at new x members and some stuff (depending on what didd from the '02 US WRX bodyshell to the 02' RS bodyshell. The nice thing is going to be avalibility and familarity. You will no longer have to ship the engine from some other country, heck some of them might even be found close enough to you that you can SEE them before you buy. Or you could even buy a crate engine from your dealer (mmmm..at cost). And if any thing goes wrong on your swapped engine, any Subaru garage will have a clue (well maybe not any) about what's going on; as they will all have had training for the engine and best of all PARTS. I guess we will have to see whats what when we get it here, and find out what the engine and tranny will cost.

Bob
Bob O is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2001, 08:18 PM   #8
Ver.III
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1185
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: North of the border
Vehicle:
I flap my gums
and now I'm a specialist

Post

Digital boy,
The 2.5 cannot crank out that much torque without changing the internals. Even if you did run stock internals, I doubt very much it would last very long. It can be easily said that the EJ20's have been cranking out that kind of torque in cars far long before the 2.5's trend came along. An example of this is the Grp A cars in the early 90's before the WRC rules came in 97. In addition, the WRC 2.2 crank out 300hp and well over 500ft/lb torque with a 34mm restricor, on spec fuel with a catlytic converter.
The point I make out is either way, to get that much RELIABLE and PRACTICAL power, you would have to dump some serious money with either the 2.0 or the 2.5 .

Rich
Ver.III is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2001, 08:40 PM   #9
98mpreziveRS
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 972
Join Date: Feb 2000
Post

umm..the WRC limits the engine size in teh subie to 1998ccs or 2litres if you will...

98mpreziveRS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2001, 10:11 PM   #10
Digital_Boy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 730
Join Date: Jan 2000
Post

Ver 3,

Apparently, Shiv's been putting out similar torque levels (at or damn near 300 lb/ft) on a stock EJ25 once he got the tuning down with the TEC-2, and has been making that torque level for several 10's of thousands of miles.

Leading Edge, who've been making turbo Subaru's for even longer, believe that this level of torque is entirely sustainable for the long term on a stock EJ25, once again with the caveat of proper engine management.
I will have to wait for Leading Edge to supply me with an engine dyno sheet, but from everything I've heard of about the EJ25's, they've been quite seriously underestimated.

The stock gearbox, on the other hand, has a glass jaw.

Digital_Boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2001, 10:16 PM   #11
markus
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 438
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: St. Albert, AB, Canada
Vehicle:
2004 STi
White on Gold

Post

If you're talking a streetable 300hp for a motor, by the time you look at transplanting an EJ20 and upgrading it vs simply upgrading an EJ25, the EJ25 will always be the more economical choice for an RS owner.

An before you bring up the reliability issue, keep in mind that there are some EJ25-T owners here on the board that are not reporting any problems and have very close to 300hp.

My 2 cents.
markus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2001, 10:18 PM   #12
GTBGUY
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2003
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Vehicle:
'99 BGP Legacy GT
'98 QS Legacy L (auto)

Post

Both may have similar torque output but the EJ25 will definately have more "streetable" power.. (ie. not needing to rev alot to get the max performance)
GTBGUY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2001, 10:27 PM   #13
Digital_Boy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 730
Join Date: Jan 2000
Post

GTBGuy,

PRECISELY! I may, at some point, move to a high RPM motor, like a built 2.2 with DOHC EJ25 heads, but for now, I'll be happy with my torquey EJ25T.

I'm more interested in sorting out the signal to noise on precisely which gearset will live with elevated torque levels. The engines aren't the issue here. I can spend another $3-4K at Cobb Tuning or B Spec USA and get an ultra-mongo EJ25 that can take 20PSI plus and make 450 lb/ft of torque on 92 octane, but it won't do me a damn bit of good if I shred gears if I ever give it more than 1/2 throttle.
Digital_Boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2001, 10:52 PM   #14
SubyRacer
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2439
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: McLean, VA, US of A
Vehicle:
2000 2.5RS
aspen white

Post

<-------yea but I need something to put in this car.
.



[This message has been edited by SubyRacer (edited February 24, 2001).]
SubyRacer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2001, 11:44 PM   #15
Ver.III
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1185
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: North of the border
Vehicle:
I flap my gums
and now I'm a specialist

Post

I guess that is the key word, "some" are reporting no problems..........

I have nothing against the 2.5 . If I were to spend the money, it would be a good start for a project build up. But after years of playing with 400hp rx-7's and Corvettes, I prefered to drop in a motor already developed rather than constant tuning...etc. I drive the car everyday, start it up in the morning, it idles, no stalling or misfiring. When I get on the power, its there with no hesitating..spitting or farting, or I have to worry about how it runs because the weather....etc,etc.
I just figure by the time you turbo a 2.5(properly) with the turbo,exhaust,Tec-2,etc..., and being on the STOCK 2.5's LIMITS , you are probably in the same region of dropping a Sti engine in your car. Or why not spend the extra few bucks and do a swap. Think of it, close-deck head,forged pistons,steel crank,sodium-filled valves,intercooler,large injectors,ball-bearing turbo...etc. How can you not consider this as an alternative? Would you rather know this motor, STOCK, is capable in handling around 350hp reliably? And there are tonnes of ugrades already out there tested and proven, such as a Link ecu or other products like our Subie brothers from down under and the UK have shown. And ironically, for those who are buying the new WRX, why are you buying it? MAYBE, one of the reasons is the fact it has the horsepower STOCK and RELIABILITY out of the box ?
Anyways, I just think the 2.0 engine swap gets played down because of peoples speculation and hear-say of how you need high-octane fuel and blah,blah,blah.... Well, I have had one for 2yrs and I have had NO problems. And one of the reasons for that is it is a tough motor, stock. If you really wanted to know about it, why don't you ask the ones who have it?

And Digital boy, I bet for the money you are paying for your "TORQUE MONSTER", you have probably surpassed the cost of a swap with extras. And equally said, you can get pretty well the same performance from a 2.0 for the same amount of money.


This is a comparision to a STOCK engine with bolt-ons to equal a STOCK engine from the factory.


Anyhow, thats just my 2cents and whether you like it or not....WHO CARES ! It is just an opinion like everyone else here. This topic never goes no where anyways . Its late and I am just ranting. PEACE

Rich
" Drive it like you hate it ! "



[This message has been edited by Ver.III (edited February 25, 2001).]
Ver.III is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
EJ22 to EJ20 Legacy Engine Swap pball3485 Newbies & FAQs 14 12-30-2010 01:03 AM
99 2.5 RS engine swap with 02 WRX..Need Wiring harness Shawn Linne Subaru Conversions 3 09-24-2006 10:10 PM
03 RS Engine swap to 2.0L Wrx wiring question jonnysubby Electrical & Lighting 0 11-22-2005 12:17 AM
WRX to RS engine swap exhaust questions racer25rs Normally Aspirated with bolt-on Forced Induction Powertrain 1 05-20-2002 02:04 PM
99 RS engine swap with a 02 WRX? Bobalouy Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 1 07-09-2001 07:42 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.