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Old 01-16-2003, 03:02 AM   #1
Vishnu Performance
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Talking Re-Mapped ECU Learning Trick 10-20hp in 5 seconds :)

Just a little trick that has been shown to accelerate the factory ECU's ignition timing learning process.

Background: There is something called "Ignition Advance Multiplier". It represents, by some complicated algorithm, the average learned positive knock correction applied to the ignition maps. It's represented in 1/8th degrees increments. 1 being the lowest and 16 being the highest (1/8 to 2 degrees in absolute terms).

The "happier" (knock free) the car is, the higher the number will be. Conversely, the lower it is, the more knock prone it is. This number, after ECU reset ore ECU swap defaults to 8 and usually creeps up to 16 (if well mapped) through normal driving. Depending on driving characteristics, this can happen within a few hours or a few weeks. Well, here's a way to make it happen in about 5 seconds ....

First: With the car fully warmed up, reset the ECU. This can be done by killing power the ECU or by simply pulling off the neg. battery terminal and pressing the brake pedal for a couple of seconds.

Second: Drive to a nice open road without traffic. Don't go on boost until you get there. Put the car into gear (3rd gear works the best) bring the revs up to 2600rpm. Push the go pedal down slightly so boost stays right around 2-4psi. You will need to MAINTAIN 2500rpm and 2-5psi for approx 5 seconds. You can do this by left-foot braking gently as to prevent acceleration. During these few seconds, the advance multiplier (which you can't see so you'll have to trust me) will go from 8, to 12 and then to 16. Works like a charm. And on our reflashed ECU, is worth an immediate 10-20 horsepower

In an attempt to save a lot of dyno time between reflashes (when the advance multiplier resets itself), I do this little trick after every reflash. In a typical dyno session, it's not unusual to reflash the same car up to 5 times. On the dyno, all I need to do is tell the dyno to hold revs to 2600rpm. Then I just lay on the throttle until I see a few psi of boost... Bingo!

Warning: This little trick artificially speeds up the learning process. This is only a good thing if the re-mapped ECU is mapped properly. If there are trouble-spots where knock is present, this trick will make it even more present. So be careful!

Cheers,
shiv
www.vishnutuning.com
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Old 01-16-2003, 03:14 AM   #2
jcme262
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good stuff Shiv,
i'll give it a go in the am
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Old 01-16-2003, 03:26 AM   #3
Kwyjibo
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This is good for 10-20hp on the stock ECU?? Or you do this to the stock ECU before you start playing with it to tune it more??
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Old 01-16-2003, 05:35 AM   #4
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very nice, I'll have to try, thanks for the info!

Dan
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Old 01-16-2003, 08:31 AM   #5
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Shiv, how high do you think boost can go using this method? I was wondering if it might be easier to set my SBC-iD at wastegate spring pressure (~6.5psi) so I wouldn't have to watch the speedo, boost gauge, AND road all at the same time.

Thanks for taking the time to post this info BTW.
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Old 01-16-2003, 09:14 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by JimmyOOOOO
Shiv, how high do you think boost can go using this method? I was wondering if it might be easier to set my SBC-iD at wastegate spring pressure (~6.5psi) so I wouldn't have to watch the speedo, boost gauge, AND road all at the same time.

Thanks for taking the time to post this info BTW.
why would you do that, it only takes 5 seconds!
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Old 01-16-2003, 09:54 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Triple X


why would you do that, it only takes 5 seconds!
in 3rd gear at 2600 RPM, you probably travel anywhere from 1/8 to 1/4 mile... a lot can happen in that distance if you get distracted from what's happening on the road.
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Old 01-16-2003, 10:21 AM   #8
Need4Boost
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Good stuff Shiv!

You want to do this for me when you come to NJ?

Will this work as effective for a UniChimp?

-Sinclair
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Old 01-16-2003, 10:40 AM   #9
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kwyjibo- I think he's referring to re-mapped ecu, or not stock is another way to put it

cool stuff

speed safely

Brian
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Old 01-16-2003, 12:01 PM   #10
JohnGalt00
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What he was saying is that it's worth 10-20 hp on a remapped ECU. The stock ECU uses the same algorithm to learn, so the trick will work on a stock ECU, just with somewhat less impressive gains
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Old 01-16-2003, 12:21 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by JohnGalt00
What he was saying is that it's worth 10-20 hp on a remapped ECU. The stock ECU uses the same algorithm to learn, so the trick will work on a stock ECU, just with somewhat less impressive gains
That is correct. The learning ability of the stock ECU on a stock car is somewhat limited. It doesn't take long for it to advance itself as far as its conservative knock correction maps will let it. But it's a good trick to use if you have just reset the ECU and want to get back up to full power quickly.

JimmyOOOOO-- Boost needs to be considerably less than standard base wastegate pressure. Really no choice but to watch the tach, boost and road at the same time. It also takes a steady left foot.

Shiv
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Old 01-16-2003, 12:44 PM   #12
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cool... thanks for the speedy reply Shiv
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Old 01-16-2003, 01:10 PM   #13
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Wow!

Thanks Shiv!

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com
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Old 01-16-2003, 01:43 PM   #14
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cool, something to try on the way to work this afternoon
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Old 01-16-2003, 01:44 PM   #15
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This takes the cake as the best free mod EVAR!! thanks shiv it works perfect!
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Old 01-16-2003, 04:48 PM   #16
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Wow, nobody ever gives out great tips like this... Thanks Shiv!
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Old 01-16-2003, 04:54 PM   #17
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Thanks Shiv,
Whenyou say : "If there are trouble-spots where knock is present, this trick will make it even more present. So be careful!"

Won't the ECU retard back again down by 4 in such case ? Or will the ECU keep this maximum advanced timing even if knock is encountered ?
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Old 01-16-2003, 05:01 PM   #18
Snowphun
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Quote:
Originally posted by JimmyOOOOO
in 3rd gear at 2600 RPM, you probably travel anywhere from 1/8 to 1/4 mile...
Might want to rethink that, as those distances in 5 seconds work out to 90-180mph.

Paul
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Old 01-16-2003, 05:47 PM   #19
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Default Re: Re-Mapped ECU Learning Trick 10-20hp in 5 seconds :)

Quote:
Originally posted by Vishnu Performance
Just a little trick that has been shown to accelerate the factory ECU's ignition timing learning process.

Background: There is something called "Ignition Advance Multiplier". It represents, by some complicated algorithm, the average learned positive knock correction applied to the ignition maps. It's represented in 1/8th degrees increments. 1 being the lowest and 16 being the highest (1/8 to 2 degrees in absolute terms).

The "happier" (knock free) the car is, the higher the number will be. Conversely, the lower it is, the more knock prone it is. This number, after ECU reset ore ECU swap defaults to 8 and usually creeps up to 16 (if well mapped) through normal driving. Depending on driving characteristics, this can happen within a few hours or a few weeks. Well, here's a way to make it happen in about 5 seconds ....

First: With the car fully warmed up, reset the ECU. This can be done by killing power the ECU or by simply pulling off the neg. battery terminal and pressing the brake pedal for a couple of seconds.

Second: Drive to a nice open road without traffic. Don't go on boost until you get there. Put the car into gear (3rd gear works the best) bring the revs up to 2600rpm. Push the go pedal down slightly so boost stays right around 2-4psi. You will need to MAINTAIN 2500rpm and 2-5psi for approx 5 seconds. You can do this by left-foot braking gently as to prevent acceleration. During these few seconds, the advance multiplier (which you can't see so you'll have to trust me) will go from 8, to 12 and then to 16. Works like a charm. And on our reflashed ECU, is worth an immediate 10-20 horsepower

In an attempt to save a lot of dyno time between reflashes (when the advance multiplier resets itself), I do this little trick after every reflash. In a typical dyno session, it's not unusual to reflash the same car up to 5 times. On the dyno, all I need to do is tell the dyno to hold revs to 2600rpm. Then I just lay on the throttle until I see a few psi of boost... Bingo!

Warning: This little trick artificially speeds up the learning process. This is only a good thing if the re-mapped ECU is mapped properly. If there are trouble-spots where knock is present, this trick will make it even more present. So be careful!

Cheers,
shiv
www.vishnutuning.com

Thanks for the tip Shiv... Wanted to just state that left ft braking while in boost will drain the vac from the brakes power booster. This will cause the brakes to have no power assist.. Wont hurt anything.. just beware that you might not have strong brakes until you get back into vac.. I found this out on my car while doing some road tuning the otherday. Just FYI.

CT
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Old 01-16-2003, 06:03 PM   #20
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Any Idea if this would work for NA ecu's? In my case a turboed NA car.
Thanks,
Joshua
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Old 01-16-2003, 06:06 PM   #21
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Default Re: Re: Re-Mapped ECU Learning Trick 10-20hp in 5 seconds :)

Quote:
Originally posted by AZScoobie



Thanks for the tip Shiv... Wanted to just state that left ft braking while in boost will drain the vac from the brakes power booster. This will cause the brakes to have no power assist.. Wont hurt anything.. just beware that you might not have strong brakes until you get back into vac.. I found this out on my car while doing some road tuning the otherday. Just FYI.

CT
That problem really won't be an issue with such little boost pressure. If you were to go WOT and sustain 1.2 bar of boost for several seconds, that would be another story.

Regards,
shiv
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Old 01-16-2003, 06:42 PM   #22
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You rock shiv, great tip!
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Old 01-16-2003, 08:12 PM   #23
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re-Mapped ECU Learning Trick 10-20hp in 5 seconds :)

Quote:
Originally posted by Vishnu Performance


That problem really won't be an issue with such little boost pressure. If you were to go WOT and sustain 1.2 bar of boost for several seconds, that would be another story.

Regards,
shiv
my great-grandaddy always used to say... "better safe than sorry when it comes to yer brakes!"

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Old 01-16-2003, 08:27 PM   #24
ShotgunTC88
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Shiv,
(Ok, I know im an idiot for askin,.....just anal<G>)

So what your sayin here is..........10-20 more hp on TOP of the hp you get AFTER the ECUTEK 25hp Reflash to stock E.C.U?

Dam..........!!

I need drink.........LOL!

SHotgun
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Old 01-16-2003, 08:42 PM   #25
wayoutwest
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No, he is saying you dont have to wait 1-2 weeks for the 'learning' of the 25hp ... you can induce it immediately.
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