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Old 08-07-2002, 07:26 PM   #1
sponaugle
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Default Who else is using water injection (pictures included)

Who else is using water injection on their WRX? I've had it on for a few months, and it works great! I can run about 2 degrees more advance, and my EGTs are a bit lower as well.

Details at http://www.wrxworld.com/projects/waterinjection











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Old 08-07-2002, 07:36 PM   #2
skeletor25rs
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Thats a very nice set-up
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Old 08-07-2002, 07:38 PM   #3
DJWRX
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Purdy lookin setup you got there. I plan on using water injection down the road. What size nozzle are you using? What is your water consumption like? Glad to see others getting good results from WI.

Thanks,
Tim
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Old 08-07-2002, 07:41 PM   #4
sponaugle
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Default

Quote:
Originally posted by DJWRX
Purdy lookin setup you got there. I plan on using water injection down the road. What size nozzle are you using? What is your water consumption like? Glad to see others getting good results from WI.

Thanks,
Tim
The kit comes with a .5, .6, and .7 nozzel, and I am using the .5. Since this is the race pump version, it has higer pressure and .5 ends up flowing more than .7 on the regular pump. I'll post the graph in just a bit.

As far as consumption, The front windshield wiper tank isn't big enough. It holds around a gallon, and I seems to be consuming about 3-4 gallons for a full tank of gas.... Of course it depends on how much full throttle you do... and well.. I pretty much do full throttle a lot.

Adam on the otherhand could probably last a month on the 5 gallon tank.

-Jeff
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Old 08-07-2002, 07:45 PM   #5
skeletor25rs
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How much was that kit?
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Old 08-07-2002, 07:47 PM   #6
sponaugle
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Default

Quote:
Originally posted by skeletor25rs
How much was that kit?
Between 400-500, depending on where you get it. I think DarthChicken paid $475? The tank is not in the kit, and I got it from Irvine Subaru for I think $170ish....

-Jeff
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Old 08-08-2002, 01:00 AM   #7
Realbigstauf
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Hey Jeff- Welcome to the WI club! I have been waiting for you and other early pioneers to widen the WRX performance window through water injection. I have been running WI since October with good results using the same pump but a 2C configuration with accumulator. The accumulator provides a pressurized reserve for lines and pump. I am now running the switch off of an auxillary driver connected to the Unichip. The Unichip maps on-off and fluid delivery based on throttle position and RPM. A side benefit is that water is used at the top end when most maps dump gas to cool and avoid detonation. The results are more horsepower, torque, an increase in effective octane (92 burns like 93/94) and as you mentioned, slightly lower egts. I am interested in the location of the jet shown in the photo. I chose to tap into the bottom of my TMIC on the box-side prior to the manifold. Since you are running a FMIC that was not an option, but did you tap the manifold on the underside or remove the screw that is in the photo? Sorry, it was not clear to me. Also, you seem to be running thru alot more water even though I'm running a .9 jet.
I go thru less than 1.3 gallons per tank. Maybe I better go sit with Adam
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Old 08-08-2002, 01:45 AM   #8
DarthChicken
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I need to watch the forums more closely I think.... I don't KNOW how much water I'll be using yet, because mine isn't quite in the car just yet. I'm guesssing I will use less water than Jeff however, because I tend to drive at only 9/10s most of the time

I paid $439 for my kit, plus the $179 for the tank. Cheaper and more effective than any intercooler IMO!

- Adam (aka, not the waterboy )
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Old 08-08-2002, 09:42 AM   #9
thejean
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What, if any, possible adverse side effects are there with a water injection kit?

Also, can anyone post a DeltaDask log of a run using a water injection kit? Just for us anal types who like to overanalyze everything before go for the gusto!

Thanks
JC
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Old 08-08-2002, 10:01 AM   #10
mantis
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Old 08-08-2002, 11:25 AM   #11
Austin
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Jeff - Did you drill and tap the manifold? Did you remove the manifold to do this, or did you just remove the throttle body and clean up the shavings?

Adam - do you think bagel combined with water will yield superior results to water alone?
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Old 08-08-2002, 11:29 AM   #12
DarthChicken
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I'm thinking the bagel would NOT help in this case. Probably best to keep that down in the crank assembly.

(pull the manifold off - yeah, you could put the nozzle someplace where you probably wouldn't HAVE to pull it off, but it wouldn't be very stealth, lol)
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Old 08-08-2002, 12:10 PM   #13
sponaugle
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Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Realbigstauf
I am interested in the location of the jet shown in the photo. I chose to tap into the bottom of my TMIC on the box-side prior to the manifold. Since you are running a FMIC that was not an option, but did you tap the manifold on the underside or remove the screw that is in the photo? Sorry, it was not clear to me. Also, you seem to be running thru alot more water even though I'm running a .9 jet.
I go thru less than 1.3 gallons per tank. Maybe I better go sit with Adam

I took the manifold off the car, and tapped the nozzel right below where the throttle body attaches.. I had the manifold off already to install the Perrin fuel rails, so it was pretty easy. There is a bit of a flat spot there, and the stream sprays right infront of the intake charge. It seems to work really well, and my spark plugs come out looking steam cleaned.

As far as water usage, I just checked today to see how I am doing, and I have used about 3 gallons so far, and that was about 3/4 of a tank of gas.... However I don't really drive the car much on trips or anthing.. pretty much full throttle a lot..
Keep in mind I am usually getting 13-14mpg. I'm sortof addicted to the acceleration.


I'll be pulling my engine out Saturday to install the new STI RA engine and tranny, and I'll put the WI on that configuration as well.

-Jeff
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Old 08-08-2002, 12:10 PM   #14
newbie sewbie
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Default

i'm a big fan of water injection...just a few questions for ya:

guess this has been asked already, but did you tap the intake or did you simply remove that screw that was shown and screw in your nozzle?

how many nozzle did you use? i notice you've mentioned it came w/3.

and finally, what does your butt dyno tell you? or if you have real dyno number, that would be awesome
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Old 08-08-2002, 12:15 PM   #15
sponaugle
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Default

Quote:
Originally posted by thejean
What, if any, possible adverse side effects are there with a water injection kit?

Also, can anyone post a DeltaDask log of a run using a water injection kit? Just for us anal types who like to overanalyze everything before go for the gusto!

Thanks
JC
As far as side effects go, the important concept to keep in mind is that water takes the place of something else.. If you have water, that water is where fuel or air could be. Adding WI doesn't usually add direct power, but allows power to be gained in other ways.. For example, if it cools the intake charge, and your intake system can then put more air in the engine, and more fuel, you can get more power. In my case, the added water evap allows me to run a bit more boost, and a bit more advance, which overshadows the space taken up by the water.

It viewed by some as a "hack", since you are not really solving the problems that are causing you ignition retard in the first place. But on the other hand, it is a valuable solution given the constraints of a budget.. We are not all running F1 budgets!

Personally, I think it is a good alternate way to get a little more power and protection, it is not hard to install, it uses water (cheap), and it does make the engine look sparkly clean inside.

Jeff
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Old 08-08-2002, 12:18 PM   #16
sponaugle
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Default

Quote:
Originally posted by newbie sewbie
i'm a big fan of water injection...just a few questions for ya:

guess this has been asked already, but did you tap the intake or did you simply remove that screw that was shown and screw in your nozzle?

how many nozzle did you use? i notice you've mentioned it came w/3.

and finally, what does your butt dyno tell you? or if you have real dyno number, that would be awesome
I mentioned the tap poing in the other reply, and I am using the smallest nozzel that came with the kit, the .5. As far as the butt dyno, the biggest difference is in hot weather. When it was 80+ degrees out, the car feels like it does on a cold morning. I was able to add a bit of advance as well. After a hard 3rd gear full throttle run, If I check the peak on my meters (Defi): Boost: 24psi, EGTs: 1500. Me: Happy.


As soon as I get the RA engine in, we are all heading out to Seattle to the 4WD dyno...
-Jeff
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Old 08-08-2002, 01:31 PM   #17
DJWRX
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Damn Jeff, you're gonna have the hot setup there. STi RA engine AND tranny, WI(w/ Race ver pump), perrin fuel rails, not to mention your other mods... I want a snickity six speed.

Jealous and drooling,
Tim
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Old 08-08-2002, 01:57 PM   #18
phxscooby101
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Default

Jeff: Do you think there's any benefit installing this system on a
stock turbo setup, but with other mods uppipe,catless exhaust ,
more boost ...etc.

For me here in phoenix it's always hot and heatsoaked tmic is
the normal occurance for me right now the only way to keep
things from knocking is a waterspray kit after it's been sitting
which helps alot since now i don't see nearly that many knock
events on my knocklink. So do you think it's worth it for us
stock turbo guys? thanks later
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Old 08-08-2002, 02:04 PM   #19
thejean
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Can these injection kits be purchased that would add water when in low throttle positions and add progressively less as you get into higher throttle positions??

JC
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Old 08-08-2002, 02:12 PM   #20
sponaugle
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Default

Quote:
Originally posted by phxscooby101
Jeff: Do you think there's any benefit installing this system on a
stock turbo setup, but with other mods uppipe,catless exhaust ,
more boost ...etc.
For me here in phoenix it's always hot and heatsoaked tmic is
the normal occurance for me right now the only way to keep
things from knocking is a waterspray kit after it's been sitting
which helps alot since now i don't see nearly that many knock
events on my knocklink. So do you think it's worth it for us
stock turbo guys? thanks later
I think there could perhaps be even more to gain, since most of the stock turbo people are running at the high end of the compressor maps, thus some pretty hot air coming out. Of course I am using a Link ECU, so I was able to tune with the WI.. I'm not sure of the direct effect with the stock ECU... Since the water takes the place of air, it tends to make the mixture look richer to the sensors.

-Jeff
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Old 08-08-2002, 02:55 PM   #21
paulw
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I have been trying to decide between a larger TMIC and the water injection to go with my PE1818. My understanding is that the stock IC has about a 3PSI pressure drop, so to run the PE1818 to 19PSI MAP I am really pushing 22 PSI out. Jan Shim mentioned that the PE1818 is really only good to around 22 PSI so I would be approaching it's limit.

The water injection is only about half the cost of a larger TMIC but doesn't get rid of the pressure drop problem (at least in my case).

Am I off base with this analysis?
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Old 08-08-2002, 03:05 PM   #22
DarthChicken
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It doesn't get rid of the pressure drop, however the reason the P1818 is only good to 22psi is because of the heat it creates... which would be taken care of by the water injection.

This is why Jeff can run 22-23psi in his car with the VF22 - between the front mount and the water injections, his intake charge temperature is cooled off significantly.

This is also why the stock turbo would do so well with the water/air. And even the stock ECU would probably run a LOT faster using this, because it would actually lean out the fuel a bit when it saw that the 02 readings were running rich, resulting in more power!
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Old 08-08-2002, 03:08 PM   #23
thejean
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Quote:
Originally posted by paulw
I have been trying to decide between a larger TMIC and the water injection to go with my PE1818. My understanding is that the stock IC has about a 3PSI pressure drop, so to run the PE1818 to 19PSI MAP I am really pushing 22 PSI out. Jan Shim mentioned that the PE1818 is really only good to around 22 PSI so I would be approaching it's limit.

The water injection is only about half the cost of a larger TMIC but doesn't get rid of the pressure drop problem (at least in my case).

Am I off base with this analysis?
Yeah, the water spray will certainly help with the low vehicle velocity heat soak and high IAT's.
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Old 08-15-2002, 02:27 AM   #24
rwroth
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Default Couple of Questions

I'm seriously considering adding WI to my car.. but the aquamist system seems somewhat $$$. Is it really worth the difference (I know spearco makes a cheap setup, but hasn't seemed too popular in the web searches I've done).

I did find a kit at the buick GN group by SMC (Link to kit) - anyone else seen this and who has done WI have an opinion. Looks very complete and adjustable, even more so than the Aquamist setup.

Thanks
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Old 08-15-2002, 03:09 AM   #25
wrxtuner02
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If i get the Turbo xs Stage 4 kit with their monster TMIC do i really need WI? or can I run 20+ lbs . at the track safely with a VF30?
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