Twin Turbo?

RSer2580 · 02-15-2001, 08:46 PM

What would you guys think is a better move. Install an AMR turbo systems or get the WRX engine, tranny and ECU. The engine and set-up is estimated to be around $10,000 less the sale value of my 2.5L. (The WRX will most likely stay stock for a few years till I finish school) The AMR system is going on sale for $6600 but I will also need to upgrade trans, clutch, and what ever else. In fact I'm so unfamiliar with the topic I don't know if there will have to be internal mods to support the additional hp. BTW, what would you guess the cost of this mess would be. Oh, that's not to mention the electronic management systems I will need which is about $2500. (not including labor to adjust) But the initial cost is not as much a concern as the over-all cost. Which would be the better move in the long run?

[This message has been edited by RSer2580 (edited February 15, 2001).]

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rB5 · 02-15-2001, 09:14 PM

Is there a particular reason you don't want to put a single-turbo system on your 2.5? Many RS's have gone that route & its a LOT less complicated than either a twin-turbo or engine swap.

Do a search on the TT setup; there have been good threads questioning the advantage of a TT setup on our engines.

Whatever you decide, Have Fun!

RSer2580 · 02-15-2001, 09:49 PM

You are right about it being less complicated, but how fast can it possibly get? There is a 2.5L that ran in the 12's with twin turbo. That's the only reason I brought it up. But that is irrelevant cause I'm not planning to run 12's and would be satisfied if I was in the mid to upper 13's. (I just want to beat those damn stock Camaros.)

If I went the single turbo route, what would I need to change, and what would be the estimated cost? Also, how reliable is the boxer when it comes to mods...? I will prob need to change the pistons for better compression and chose some other tranny cause I hear this one is not made for higher hp, but what else? And won't I still need an electronic system management?

I don't know what brands to go with, or who to turn to. This all wheel drive thing is even hard to grasp cause I just converted from Nissan. This is a cooler company thats for sure, and things are very different here in Scooby Town.

I appreciate any info you guys can share with me. I'm trying to go the best route here and need some guidance.

[This message has been edited by RSer2580 (edited February 15, 2001).]

jImp · 02-15-2001, 09:53 PM

The stock JDM engines don't pass emissions, I don't know about the AMRs. Also, the JDM engines run on a minnimum of 98 octane? gas.

The JCsports turbo seems right for you. It has decent power and no lag.

[This message has been edited by jImp (edited February 15, 2001).]

rB5 · 02-15-2001, 10:09 PM

With a single turbo you can still get PLENTY of power. I think the main theory of getting a TT is get a more linear powerband, but the 2.5 is still a very tractable engine when turbo'd. Check this thread: http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/Foru...ML/000209.html

There are actually a lot of single-turbo kits out; a search of these forums will give you more info than you want. If i could, i would probably go with Shiv's kit with TEC-II: http://www.vishnuperformance.com/index.htm

Best advice is to do the search, and ask other i-clubbers for advice. There are a lot of other very knowledgeable people that are glad to help; they've saved my arse plenty of time!

STi-Nismo Dood · 02-15-2001, 10:11 PM

How much would the total setup cost including controllers for the JCSport Turbo Kit on a 2.5L?

doripreza · 02-15-2001, 10:50 PM

What is your reason for wanting a twin-turbo setup?

The only advantages to a twin-turbo setup vs. single is a little bit less lag and more low end torque.. thats why they always use that setup in wagons, people with TT Rx7's usually switch them to a single turbo setup because it allows a high top end than a twin turbo configuration

if your looking for bigger HP i would go with an WRX setup instead..,, i think that setup would probably be more reliable than AMR anyway just because its a stock turbo system..

<i seriously doubt either will pass smog>
my 0.02

[This message has been edited by doripreza (edited February 15, 2001).]

brandon · 02-16-2001, 04:20 AM

"The JCsports turbo seems right for you. It has decent power and no lag."

I'm not commenting on the JC system, just the lag statment. ALL turbochargers have lag. Until someone comes up with a massless turbine (that spools up instantaneously), this will continue to be the case. Having said that, I'm sure it's possible the JC system has very little lag if it uses a smallish turbo.

smacksube · 02-16-2001, 05:59 AM

the jc sports turbo is super over priced, 3g's for a turbo???? that's insane, you don't get gauges, and I think last time I checked the kit left out the hot side pipes, but that's besides the point, if you just took the time to buy all the parts individually, you'd get better components and it'd probably be a couple hundred cheaper, especially if you do your own install. And the turbo that comes in the kit is not impressive at all, but oh well. The only problem I have right now is getting my manifold custom made, which is a tad pricey.

smacksube · 02-16-2001, 06:02 AM

instead of going a wrx swap route, why not consider building another 2.5 from the bottom up? If you get a closed deck you can run mad boost, and then as you build up the block you can put on whatever you want, this is what I think I'm going to do. I've heard that turbo-ing the stock 2.5 block will pose problems with the exhaust port or something crazy like that, either way if you build another engine, then you can rag it out and have a back up....

XT6Wagon · 02-16-2001, 06:10 AM

yes you can. AMR's may be the top of the line, but you could build your own setup for less.

It looks like the 01 is the easiest to do it on, as it seems to have the least crap under the hood.

I'd get a pair of legacy Turbo Turbochargers, and a twin entry air/water IC. Oh and a Tec II might be in order to keep the motor happy.

jImp · 02-16-2001, 08:38 AM

Yes I meant to say that the JC Sports kit has very little lag. Also if you buy one of the used kits on the board the price isn't too bad.

RSer2580 · 02-16-2001, 09:50 AM

Okay, so far you guys did a great job explaining your opinions--but I still don't see where the single turbo is an advantage to a WRX engine swap.

I mean, I know anything can be reliable when you put enough money into it. You could mod the thing till you go broke! But I want the most amount of reliability for the least amount of money--just like the rest of you. Sinced I'm still in school, I can only afford about $8000. If I can get away with spending less, it's even better. So...WRX swap or Tubo?

Is it even possible to get into mid to upper 13's for this amount of money? Also, what do these terms mean: AMR and JDM?

Pinoy · 02-16-2001, 11:38 AM

If 13's is all you want... the most bang for the buck would be... NOS. But for 8G's you could be in the 12's all day. E-mail Byron from B-spec. Something about using a brand new 2.2 block, your 2.5 heads brand new FMIC, forgot what turbo, bigger fuel injectors, and WOLF computer. Hes really cool and very knowledgeable with tuning the scoobies.

[This message has been edited by Pinoy (edited February 16, 2001).]

efoo · 02-16-2001, 11:58 AM

I honestly don't think you can afford to have a turbo in your present situation. It is not a bolt-and-forget affair. If you're talking about being a student and needing a reliable car to get to classes, have fun on weekends, go on dates, whatever, and mixing "goes fast as heck" and "cheap" in the same sentence as well, then I don't think you really understand what it takes.
Nothing personal, but it seems to be a common misconception, especially among people who don't have turbos themselves in their cars.

I would highly recommend that if you can afford the $10,000 needed for a WRX engine swap, then you can afford to trade in your car for a new 2002 WRX and take the small hit on the trade-in. You're a student -- do you really want to drive around watching your gauges all day making sure your grafted-on turbo or spliced-in WRX wiring harness is working right? Or would you rather have fun talking with your friends in the car? No matter how well the swap, or turbo install, is done, you always know in the back of your mind that your car has had something major done to it, and it will never be quite the same again.

Keep that in mind. And oh yeah, I do have a turbocharged 2.5RS. I wouldn't give it up for anything else in the world, and I do drive it to work as well as on the track, but my peace of mind (which is worth untold amounts of money to me - is it to you?) comes from the fact that I also have a 1996 Impreza Outback wagon -- bone stock and with a 2-year extended powertrain warranty, back in the garage. Can you say the same thing about yourself?

-Edwin

Pinoy · 02-16-2001, 01:28 PM

McCavity- here ya go. www.b-specusa.com

pic of his car::

<IMG SRC="http://www.b-specusa.com/bspecusaindex.jpg" border=0>

GTBGUY · 02-16-2001, 09:14 PM

Pinoy & everyone else - FYI BSpec's car is JC SPORTS old '93L Sedan! JC SPORTS built that car, and B-Spec just added the the body kit.

Jessie James · 02-17-2001, 12:35 AM

Hey Pinoy,

Who is that Byron guy at B-Spec? Do you have a website or email address for him? I have a question or two about that setup for him...

Mac

Kevin Thomas · 02-17-2001, 01:57 AM

Does ANYONE have a twin turbo kit yet from AMR?

Lix · 02-17-2001, 10:03 AM

I don't even think AMR has one yet.

JC · 02-17-2001, 10:25 AM

B-Spec did ALOT more than add a body kit.

RSer2580 · 02-18-2001, 05:07 PM

Thanks Pinoy, I went to the site, it will be a great help.

At http://www.b-specusa.com/parts.html
The core and crank exchange look like a good set-up for a turbo. But I don't know what kind of turbo I would need. I wand to hear some opinions before I get in touch with b-spec or anyone else. Does anyone have any suggestions?

And how would I get my hands on a trans to replace my current one? If you guys could give me links to either it would help out a lot.

Also, will I need to replace the clutch if I do this upgrade, or will the stock one hold?

Thanks everyone for the input, everyone of them counts. Even the ones that are as conservative as Edwin's

. I know I prob shouldn't be wasting my money on my car, but I just hate loosing to my friend's ugly cars. And I can't stand losing to Eclipses and Camaros'.

02-15-2001, 08:46 PM	#1
RSer2580 Scooby Newbie Member#: 4065 Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: IL	Twin Turbo? What would you guys think is a better move. Install an AMR turbo systems or get the WRX engine, tranny and ECU. The engine and set-up is estimated to be around $10,000 less the sale value of my 2.5L. (The WRX will most likely stay stock for a few years till I finish school) The AMR system is going on sale for $6600 but I will also need to upgrade trans, clutch, and what ever else. In fact I'm so unfamiliar with the topic I don't know if there will have to be internal mods to support the additional hp. BTW, what would you guess the cost of this mess would be. Oh, that's not to mention the electronic management systems I will need which is about $2500. (not including labor to adjust) But the initial cost is not as much a concern as the over-all cost. Which would be the better move in the long run? [This message has been edited by RSer2580 (edited February 15, 2001).] * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

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02-15-2001, 09:14 PM	#2
rB5 Scooby Specialist Member#: 1682 Join Date: Jun 2000 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: in my OBXT on the dead lawn Vehicle: '06 OBXT Glacier White GF4	Is there a particular reason you don't want to put a single-turbo system on your 2.5? Many RS's have gone that route & its a LOT less complicated than either a twin-turbo or engine swap. Do a search on the TT setup; there have been good threads questioning the advantage of a TT setup on our engines. Whatever you decide, Have Fun!

02-15-2001, 09:49 PM	#3
RSer2580 Scooby Newbie Member#: 4065 Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: IL	You are right about it being less complicated, but how fast can it possibly get? There is a 2.5L that ran in the 12's with twin turbo. That's the only reason I brought it up. But that is irrelevant cause I'm not planning to run 12's and would be satisfied if I was in the mid to upper 13's. (I just want to beat those damn stock Camaros.) If I went the single turbo route, what would I need to change, and what would be the estimated cost? Also, how reliable is the boxer when it comes to mods...? I will prob need to change the pistons for better compression and chose some other tranny cause I hear this one is not made for higher hp, but what else? And won't I still need an electronic system management? I don't know what brands to go with, or who to turn to. This all wheel drive thing is even hard to grasp cause I just converted from Nissan. This is a cooler company thats for sure, and things are very different here in Scooby Town. I appreciate any info you guys can share with me. I'm trying to go the best route here and need some guidance. [This message has been edited by RSer2580 (edited February 15, 2001).]

02-15-2001, 09:53 PM	#4
jImp Scooby Specialist Member#: 1741 Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: San Gabriel, CA Vehicle: 1999 Impreza 2.5 RS Rally Blue (Sold)	The stock JDM engines don't pass emissions, I don't know about the AMRs. Also, the JDM engines run on a minnimum of 98 octane? gas. The JCsports turbo seems right for you. It has decent power and no lag. [This message has been edited by jImp (edited February 15, 2001).]

02-15-2001, 10:09 PM	#5
rB5 Scooby Specialist Member#: 1682 Join Date: Jun 2000 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: in my OBXT on the dead lawn Vehicle: '06 OBXT Glacier White GF4	With a single turbo you can still get PLENTY of power. I think the main theory of getting a TT is get a more linear powerband, but the 2.5 is still a very tractable engine when turbo'd. Check this thread: http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/Foru...ML/000209.html There are actually a lot of single-turbo kits out; a search of these forums will give you more info than you want. If i could, i would probably go with Shiv's kit with TEC-II: http://www.vishnuperformance.com/index.htm Best advice is to do the search, and ask other i-clubbers for advice. There are a lot of other very knowledgeable people that are glad to help; they've saved my arse plenty of time!

02-15-2001, 10:11 PM	#6
STi-Nismo Dood Scooby Specialist Member#: 4149 Join Date: Feb 2001 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: Frisco/Diego/LosAngeles Vehicle: MY93 ImprezaRA Sedan GC8.6 Aspen White	How much would the total setup cost including controllers for the JCSport Turbo Kit on a 2.5L?

02-15-2001, 10:50 PM	#7
doripreza Scooby Newbie Member#: 574 Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Altadena,CA,USA Vehicle: 99 Impreza RS Black	What is your reason for wanting a twin-turbo setup? The only advantages to a twin-turbo setup vs. single is a little bit less lag and more low end torque.. thats why they always use that setup in wagons, people with TT Rx7's usually switch them to a single turbo setup because it allows a high top end than a twin turbo configuration if your looking for bigger HP i would go with an WRX setup instead..,, i think that setup would probably be more reliable than AMR anyway just because its a stock turbo system.. <i seriously doubt either will pass smog> my 0.02 [This message has been edited by doripreza (edited February 15, 2001).]

02-16-2001, 04:20 AM	#8
brandon Scooby Newbie Member#: 1183 Join Date: Mar 2000 Vehicle: 2002 Legacy L SE Wag 1964 Lotus Elan	"The JCsports turbo seems right for you. It has decent power and no lag." I'm not commenting on the JC system, just the lag statment. ALL turbochargers have lag. Until someone comes up with a massless turbine (that spools up instantaneously), this will continue to be the case. Having said that, I'm sure it's possible the JC system has very little lag if it uses a smallish turbo.

02-16-2001, 05:59 AM	#9
smacksube Scooby Specialist Member#: 4067 Join Date: Feb 2001 Vehicle: 01 2.5 rs silver	the jc sports turbo is super over priced, 3g's for a turbo???? that's insane, you don't get gauges, and I think last time I checked the kit left out the hot side pipes, but that's besides the point, if you just took the time to buy all the parts individually, you'd get better components and it'd probably be a couple hundred cheaper, especially if you do your own install. And the turbo that comes in the kit is not impressive at all, but oh well. The only problem I have right now is getting my manifold custom made, which is a tad pricey.

02-16-2001, 06:02 AM	#10
smacksube Scooby Specialist Member#: 4067 Join Date: Feb 2001 Vehicle: 01 2.5 rs silver	instead of going a wrx swap route, why not consider building another 2.5 from the bottom up? If you get a closed deck you can run mad boost, and then as you build up the block you can put on whatever you want, this is what I think I'm going to do. I've heard that turbo-ing the stock 2.5 block will pose problems with the exhaust port or something crazy like that, either way if you build another engine, then you can rag it out and have a back up....

02-16-2001, 06:10 AM	#11
XT6Wagon Scooby Specialist Member#: 524 Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: WA Vehicle: 04 STi White	yes you can. AMR's may be the top of the line, but you could build your own setup for less. It looks like the 01 is the easiest to do it on, as it seems to have the least crap under the hood. I'd get a pair of legacy Turbo Turbochargers, and a twin entry air/water IC. Oh and a Tec II might be in order to keep the motor happy.

02-16-2001, 08:38 AM	#12
jImp Scooby Specialist Member#: 1741 Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: San Gabriel, CA Vehicle: 1999 Impreza 2.5 RS Rally Blue (Sold)	Yes I meant to say that the JC Sports kit has very little lag. Also if you buy one of the used kits on the board the price isn't too bad.

02-16-2001, 09:50 AM	#13
RSer2580 Scooby Newbie Member#: 4065 Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: IL	Okay, so far you guys did a great job explaining your opinions--but I still don't see where the single turbo is an advantage to a WRX engine swap. I mean, I know anything can be reliable when you put enough money into it. You could mod the thing till you go broke! But I want the most amount of reliability for the least amount of money--just like the rest of you. Sinced I'm still in school, I can only afford about $8000. If I can get away with spending less, it's even better. So...WRX swap or Tubo? Is it even possible to get into mid to upper 13's for this amount of money? Also, what do these terms mean: AMR and JDM?

02-16-2001, 11:38 AM	#14
Pinoy Scooby Newbie Member#: 400 Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: San Pedro Vehicle: 1990 300ZXTT Black	If 13's is all you want... the most bang for the buck would be... NOS. But for 8G's you could be in the 12's all day. E-mail Byron from B-spec. Something about using a brand new 2.2 block, your 2.5 heads brand new FMIC, forgot what turbo, bigger fuel injectors, and WOLF computer. Hes really cool and very knowledgeable with tuning the scoobies. [This message has been edited by Pinoy (edited February 16, 2001).]

02-16-2001, 11:58 AM	#15
efoo Scooby Specialist Member#: 80 Join Date: Jul 1999	I honestly don't think you can afford to have a turbo in your present situation. It is not a bolt-and-forget affair. If you're talking about being a student and needing a reliable car to get to classes, have fun on weekends, go on dates, whatever, and mixing "goes fast as heck" and "cheap" in the same sentence as well, then I don't think you really understand what it takes. Nothing personal, but it seems to be a common misconception, especially among people who don't have turbos themselves in their cars. I would highly recommend that if you can afford the $10,000 needed for a WRX engine swap, then you can afford to trade in your car for a new 2002 WRX and take the small hit on the trade-in. You're a student -- do you really want to drive around watching your gauges all day making sure your grafted-on turbo or spliced-in WRX wiring harness is working right? Or would you rather have fun talking with your friends in the car? No matter how well the swap, or turbo install, is done, you always know in the back of your mind that your car has had something major done to it, and it will never be quite the same again. Keep that in mind. And oh yeah, I do have a turbocharged 2.5RS. I wouldn't give it up for anything else in the world, and I do drive it to work as well as on the track, but my peace of mind (which is worth untold amounts of money to me - is it to you?) comes from the fact that I also have a 1996 Impreza Outback wagon -- bone stock and with a 2-year extended powertrain warranty, back in the garage. Can you say the same thing about yourself? -Edwin

02-16-2001, 01:28 PM	#16
Pinoy Scooby Newbie Member#: 400 Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: San Pedro Vehicle: 1990 300ZXTT Black	McCavity- here ya go. www.b-specusa.com pic of his car:: <IMG SRC="http://www.b-specusa.com/bspecusaindex.jpg" border=0>

02-16-2001, 09:14 PM	#17
GTBGUY Scooby Specialist Member#: 2003 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Vehicle: '99 BGP Legacy GT '98 QS Legacy L (auto)	Pinoy & everyone else - FYI BSpec's car is JC SPORTS old '93L Sedan! JC SPORTS built that car, and B-Spec just added the the body kit.

02-17-2001, 12:35 AM	#18
Jessie James Scooby Specialist Member#: 2072 Join Date: Aug 2000 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: NoVa	Hey Pinoy, Who is that Byron guy at B-Spec? Do you have a website or email address for him? I have a question or two about that setup for him... Mac

02-17-2001, 01:57 AM	#19
Kevin Thomas Street Racing Instructor Moderator Member#: 110 Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: 1997 OBS, 1996 SVX, 1988 RX Vehicle: 1989 1989 XT6	Does ANYONE have a twin turbo kit yet from AMR?

02-17-2001, 10:03 AM	#20
Lix Scooby Newbie Member#: 1560 Join Date: May 2000 Location: San Mateo,Ca,USA	I don't even think AMR has one yet.

02-17-2001, 10:25 AM	#21
JC NASIOC Supporter Member#: 692 Join Date: Dec 1999 Chapter/Region: SCIC Vehicle: 2006 Pontiac GTO M6 Black	B-Spec did ALOT more than add a body kit.

02-18-2001, 05:07 PM	#22
RSer2580 Scooby Newbie Member#: 4065 Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: IL	Thanks Pinoy, I went to the site, it will be a great help. At http://www.b-specusa.com/parts.html The core and crank exchange look like a good set-up for a turbo. But I don't know what kind of turbo I would need. I wand to hear some opinions before I get in touch with b-spec or anyone else. Does anyone have any suggestions? And how would I get my hands on a trans to replace my current one? If you guys could give me links to either it would help out a lot. Also, will I need to replace the clutch if I do this upgrade, or will the stock one hold? Thanks everyone for the input, everyone of them counts. Even the ones that are as conservative as Edwin's . I know I prob shouldn't be wasting my money on my car, but I just hate loosing to my friend's ugly cars. And I can't stand losing to Eclipses and Camaros'.