Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Sunday April 20, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Normally Aspirated Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-25-2001, 08:07 PM   #1
impRSa01
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 4411
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Appleton, WI
Vehicle:
2001 Impreza 2.5 RS
Black

Post N/A intercooler setup (CHECK THIS OUT)

I posted something two days ago and it is now not on the board somehow. So I will post it again. Here it goes:

I have a stock setup right now on my MY01. I have enough for the best intake if that's what I decide to do. I will sacrifice some low end torque but not as much as what the damn Weapon R supposedly takes away. Anyways, what do you guys think about a setup like this:

An intercooler on a non-forced inducted car. It would have the three vacuum lines connecting to it, but only one 2.75" pipe to connect to the T/B. 8Comples said that it is the engine having to work to hard to suck in air that makes it lose torque, along with lack of pressure. Wouldn't this solve the problem, because the intercooler can hold just as much air or even more that the stock air box to begin with and the air even gets there faster. I wouldn't think this would give you the same HP and torque as by just putting a filter on the T/B. A filter would act just like a short tubed intake, only no tubing. This would give you the air you need to run it in low rpm cycles, yet kick ass after 4000 rpms as well. Kind of like 8Complex's setup, only a real intercooler (aluminum).

HIT ME WITH THE FEEDBACK
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
impRSa01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2001, 08:24 PM   #2
Midwayman
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1997
Join Date: Jul 2000
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Des Plaines, IL
Vehicle:
2006 Acura TL 6spd
STMGM6 alumni

Exclamation

You dont grasp the basic concept of an intercooler. An intercooler is not an active cooler. (well, most cases.....) It works by reducing hot compressed air to ambient temps. A NA car does not have the compression, and does not heat the intake charge (or at least above underhood temps at worst) Without a tempeture difference between the intake charge and ambient, the IC will NOT cool the air further. It will simply restrict the airflow to the TB. A intercooler is a very bad idea on a NA car.

Couple of things you could do... route the AC to the intercooler somehow. Or use the water sprayer on the IC. Both of these would reduce temps somewhat below ambient. However the negatives would far out weigh the positives.
Midwayman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2001, 08:28 PM   #3
Fitz
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 1426
Join Date: May 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Goffstown, NH
Vehicle:
'07 335xi, '07 ZX6R
SV650 Race Bike

Post

There's been a few posts on this topic.. all coming to the conclusion that the negative's far outweigh the positives.... Doing a search would bring back a lot of those if you're still interested.

Fitz
Fitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2001, 10:02 AM   #4
adamsrs
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3768
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Seattle, WA
Post

Would it be front mount or top mount?
adamsrs www.unnatural.org
adamsrs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2001, 01:20 PM   #5
Skirvdawg
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 3375
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Virginia Beach
Vehicle:
2002 VW Jetta Wagon
Black

Post

The only thing an intercooler does is cool down the air before it gets to a turbo. A turbo runs off of exhaust gas and these gasses are what need to be cooled.
Skirvdawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2001, 01:25 PM   #6
donjuan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2248
Join Date: Aug 2000
Post

I don't think you're quite accurate Skirvdawg.
donjuan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2001, 01:30 PM   #7
tomrichardson
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2672
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Lakewood, CO USA
Vehicle:
1973 Porsche 914
Porsche Red

Post

Shirvdog is somewhat incorrect.

The only thing the exhaust gases are used for is to turn the fan in the turbo. There are two peices to a turbo, the exhaust peice and the intake piece. When the exhaust peice turns its fan, the intake fan also turns. The intake fan acts like a reverse jet and SUCKS air from the air cleaner. Then the air is put through the intercooler, and then to the combustion chamber. Hence: Forced induction. Not recycled gas induction.



[This message has been edited by tomrichardson (edited February 26, 2001).]
tomrichardson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2001, 01:47 PM   #8
impRSa01
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 4411
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Appleton, WI
Vehicle:
2001 Impreza 2.5 RS
Black

Post

I was thinking a top mount intercooler, but possibly a front mount, like the FMIC for the hondas. I am not sure though, just wanted to see what you guys thought about the whole idea. Don't let intercooler throw your thoughts off. In an N/A situation, you wouldn't even call it in intercooler, but it would let just as much air in as an intercooler. So don't tell me about how it cools the hot air to ambient temperature. I understand how it would work for a turbo, but in this case it just lets more air in. It would just resemble the shape of a top mount, but only connect to the T/B.
impRSa01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2001, 01:59 PM   #9
SHADOWES
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 4427
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle:
1998 Legacy GT
silver for now

Post

MABEY I AM MISS UNDERSTANDING YOU BUT HOW WOULD AN INTERCOOLER LET MORE AIR INTO THE TB. A INTERCOOLER WOULD FLOW LESS AIR THAN A STRAIGHT PIPE INTAKE... ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE LITTLE RAM/COLD AIR THINGS AVAILABLE THAT MOUNT IN FRONT LIKE AN INTERCOOLER???
SHADOWES is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2001, 02:06 PM   #10
cj917
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 627
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: boston
Vehicle:
MY96 outback wagon

Post

"you wouldn't even call it in intercooler, but it would let just as much air in as an intercooler"

so what you are looking for is a "ram-air" design airbox then

an intercooler is a heat-exchanger, that means it gives away the heat in the intake air charge to the ambient air, and in exchange the intake pressure drops slightly (depending on the design of the IC core)

if you look at an IC, you'll notice how restricted (for the lack of better work, sorry) is it for air for flow through the IC core... in a N/A case, i suspect that it might even rob the performance a little, but in a force-induction case, it won't matter since the air is pressurized
cj917 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2001, 02:24 PM   #11
Midwayman
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1997
Join Date: Jul 2000
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Des Plaines, IL
Vehicle:
2006 Acura TL 6spd
STMGM6 alumni

Post

Actually the restriction matters for FI cars as well. Thats why the ICs are rated for pressure drop. Of course the benefit of a cooler charge far outweighs the restriction in FI.
Midwayman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2001, 05:10 PM   #12
Skirvdawg
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 3375
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Virginia Beach
Vehicle:
2002 VW Jetta Wagon
Black

Post

Yeah, you're right. I forgot about the second set of fan blades in the turbo. The exhaust gasses turn the first set which then draws in and injects fresh air with the second set of blades. My bad.

I'm studying for a test and part of it is superchargers, blowers, and turbochargers. I got all excited and thought I'd post something interesting. Oh well, I tried.
Skirvdawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2001, 12:20 AM   #13
go go go
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2784
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Japan
Post

Intercooler is for Turbo or SC only.
Turbo charger powered by the exhaust gas forces intake air into the throttle body. As the air been compressed, it is hot. The heat is not mainly from turbo charger, it is from been compressed. So, intercooler is there to cool the intake air, the cooler the air the denser the air meaning more oxygen. If their is no turbo, the intake air is not compressed and not hot.
go go go is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2001, 09:53 PM   #14
chomer
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 2510
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Austin, TX USA
Post

I don't know if it's just me or what, but I think that people are on a different page here. I think he understands that an intercooler would not help substantially drop the air temp. But I also think that is not what he's asking.

If I read it correctly, he wants to use an intercooler as a torque/throttle box. During low RPMs, the air in this fake airbox provides the air to give the car lots of pep.

My belief is that you're probably better off taking an air filter box off a 2000 and shutting the lid together.

Homer
chomer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2001, 04:54 AM   #15
JGard
pooptastic
 
Member#: 1904
Join Date: Jul 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Austin, TX
Vehicle:
2014 Lexus IS 350
'02 BMW R1100S

Post

check out the site www.howstuffworks.com and look for the link to how turbos work. you'll realize why this idea won't work...
JGard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2001, 11:35 AM   #16
bash555
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 1539
Join Date: May 2000
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: NOVA
Vehicle:
2005 STi
'71 914

Have a Nice Day?

Hey ShadowES,

dude, go read the posting ruled again.

NO CAPS ALLOWED!
bash555 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2001, 11:51 AM   #17
8Complex

Moderator
 
Member#: 922
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Vehicle:
04 FXT
Red

Post

You could do something like that, but I think the intercooler would actually provide resistence as it isn't designed to be free-flowing (remember, air is usually pushed through there forcefully).

The only way you can get an intercooler to work with an N/A car correctly is to be actively spraying it with a vey cold gas like NOS or CO2 to actually cool the temperature of the intercooler below outside air temperature (which is what the turbo/supercharger uses it for... cooling to outside temps).
8Complex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2001, 04:16 PM   #18
cj917
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 627
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: boston
Vehicle:
MY96 outback wagon

Post

what 8complex said

just go take a look at an IC, and look at its core and where air is going in and coming out... and then tell me it's not restrictive

impRSa01:
iSR has their intake design just like that... look at here and there are many discussions regarding intake designs, and Trey Cobb not too long ago posted his findings... a simply search would do wonders
cj917 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2001, 12:29 AM   #19
impRSa01
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 4411
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Appleton, WI
Vehicle:
2001 Impreza 2.5 RS
Black

Talking

Chomer, I never thought about that. By taking the filter out of the stock air box, but leaving the box there and just closing it. Then you could add 3" aluminum pipe wherever then add the filter to it. You arent getting rid of the box to lose torque, so maybe it would work. I dont think the filter is what helps it give it more torque down low, so why would the filter hurt it if you took it out? Can someone tell me if this is even a better solution or HAS IT BEEN DONE?
impRSa01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Check this out: Subaru Powered Civic cruzanspeed General Community 24 06-01-2010 03:43 PM
stupid srt4 neon kids lololol LMAO ROTFL (seriously, check this out) 2pt5RS Off-Topic 11 04-18-2006 09:19 AM
Inflatable Church (ya gotta check this out) BongMonster Off-Topic 3 06-26-2004 01:04 AM
Check out this ebay Vette and Mustang. (really guys, check them out) Eric SS Off-Topic 26 08-28-2003 06:36 PM
Nice Find (ICQ users check this out) Impeza Rider General Forum Archive 0 08-28-2000 07:07 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.