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Old 03-06-2003, 10:18 AM   #26
netZ
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hmm, you still need to use a diode b/c the hood pin itself will send a ground signal back to your ECU.

test it by metering your tapped ECU connection with the Hood Pin grounded. it will show ground even if your gear shifter is in neutral! your ecu will think the vehicle is in gear though the gear shifter is in neutral.

1 amp diodes aren't expensive, 10 cents perhaps!? and it will protect your ECU from getting an improper ground from the hood pin.

netZ



Quote:
Originally posted by idealrides
The other day I switched my Aladdin remote start from manual trans. mode to automatic so that I no longer have to do the "exit sequence". I tapped the neutral sensor wire at the ECU and connected it directly to the hood pin input, without using any type of diode system as the Aladdin uses voltage sensing not relays to drive the input triggers. It works great!

The only problem is now I don't get to see the confused looks on people's faces when I used to get out of my car with the engine running and then have the engine and headlights shut off magically.
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Old 03-06-2003, 05:26 PM   #27
idealrides
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Hummm.... my car already thinks I'm pressing the clutch all the time so whats wrong with it thinking I'm in gear??

Nevertheless using a diode would be the proper thing to do when merging two circuits like this but I don't have a hood pin switch so I think I'm all set! Thanks for the info though.
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Old 03-06-2003, 07:11 PM   #28
netZ
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sounds like you got a real hokey remote start setup!

installing alarms isn't your day job? i would have said don't quit your day job.. but i think i've changed my mind...hahaha j/k...

all kidding aside, for us normal people...

1) Installing a proper Hood Pin for a remote start system is a must, you don't want to be wrenching in your vehicle when someone 'accidentally' initiates your remote start feature

2) Use a temporary clutch bypass method when you remote start a manual tranny, don't just disable it! Though it doesn't really matter if your clutch is bypassed since it only unlocks the starter. Tricking your ECU's Neutral Safety by feeding it an improper ground signal isn't a good thing!

3) If you're planning on tapping the ECU's Neutral Wire to the Remote Start system with a Hood Pin... be sure to diode isolate it. You are basically allowing your ECU to be suceptible for invalid ground signal to the ECU! And your ECU can be fried if someone were to zap your vehicle with a stun gun... laugh but car alarms have been disabled by a stun gun!

People have already fried their neutral position switch already ... obviously, the Remote Start can't tell for sure if your vehicle is in gear b/c there's no ground signal anymore! You should at least test your remote start every so often in gear to see if the Neutral Switch is functioning.

4) If your remote start device needs to see a ground signal first before it will remote start, you can use the parking brake switch as well. Though it's not fool proof but it won't remote start without the parking brake engaged. Also use a diode, just in case the remote start sends a ground signal through this wire as well. If needed an additional Toggle Switch to go inline between the parking brake switch and the remote start wire will allow you to disable the remote start feature for vehicle servicing etc...

Proper installation is a must!

netZ

Quote:
Originally posted by idealrides
Hummm.... my car already thinks I'm pressing the clutch all the time so whats wrong with it thinking I'm in gear??

Nevertheless using a diode would be the proper thing to do when merging two circuits like this but I don't have a hood pin switch so I think I'm all set! Thanks for the info though.

Last edited by netZ; 03-06-2003 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 03-06-2003, 09:06 PM   #29
idealrides
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netZ, I guess you're the kind of person who comes to a complete stop at a stop sign in the middle of the night when nobodys around... as for me I'm <singing along> LIVIN ON THE EDGE!!!

Just to let you know I am not advocating people follow my unsafe setup, but since you jokingly attacked my workmanship I thought I'd explain myself...

I decided not to install a hood switch because I want to be able to start my engine with the hood open, for example between spraying degreaser and rinsing off my engine bay I like to start the engine without having to get in my car. Of course this isn't the safest setup but if I want to disable the remote start when working on the engine I just leave a door open. Keep in mind the "door open" disable only works on certain remote starters.

I highly recommend a temporary clutch bypass for cars that are lent out to friends, and for absent minded owners. I am not absent minded and I don't lend my car out to people who don't know how to drive it. So as a convenience I like to be able to reach in and start the car without having to push the clutch, for one reason or another I actually do this a lot more than I thought I would. For people that have a dumb girlfriend or sibling that drives their car, I certainly would install a relay to prevent this.

Now If someone uses a stun gun on my car, I don't see how a diode on my neutral sensor wire will do anything to help prevent the shock from getting into my ECU since the neutral sensor has no output when the ignition is off, and because she'd be in neutral anyway. And if all hell broke loose and my ECU were to see a neutral when I wasn't actually in neutral, what would go wrong? Nothing!

People have already fried their neutral position switch already? Now thats what I call hokey pokey!!
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Old 03-11-2003, 12:37 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by idealrides


And if all hell broke loose and my ECU were to see a neutral when I wasn't actually in neutral, what would go wrong? Nothing!
I'll be the first to admit I know next to nothing about engines and the ECU's that controls them, but I do know that after I start my car in neutral, once I put it into gear, the RPM's drop. I suppose this is a response to the neutral indicator wire. If that circuit were fried, the ECU may not be able to manage RPM appropriately, and I doubt that would be a good thing.

Besides, it takes all of two minutes and 20 cents to wire a diode! I actually wired two, and fused it, for a little extra insurance. And netZ's suggestion to test it occasionally is a good one; I do it regularly.

On the other hand, if the diode opened completely, the neutral protection wouldn't be there anymore. That's fairly unlikely, though, and I'd rather protect the expensive ECU circuitry.

josh
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Old 03-11-2003, 12:47 AM   #31
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can't speak for all, but my alarm came with 2 diodes to go with the hood pin, so you may not even have to buy one.
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Old 03-11-2003, 10:20 AM   #32
netZ
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thanks for the props!

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...neutral+switch

it appears if the neutral switch is dead symptoms include 'bad idle'

netZ

Quote:
Originally posted by quynce


I'll be the first to admit I know next to nothing about engines and the ECU's that controls them, but I do know that after I start my car in neutral, once I put it into gear, the RPM's drop. I suppose this is a response to the neutral indicator wire. If that circuit were fried, the ECU may not be able to manage RPM appropriately, and I doubt that would be a good thing.

Besides, it takes all of two minutes and 20 cents to wire a diode! I actually wired two, and fused it, for a little extra insurance. And netZ's suggestion to test it occasionally is a good one; I do it regularly.

On the other hand, if the diode opened completely, the neutral protection wouldn't be there anymore. That's fairly unlikely, though, and I'd rather protect the expensive ECU circuitry.

josh
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Old 03-11-2003, 06:45 PM   #33
idealrides
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I'm not an engineer but I know a faulty MAP reading would be a much more likely culprit for bad idle than a neutral sensor. Regardless, it doesn't matter. If you car ever gets hit by a stungun, you'll be glad you installed diodes!
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Old 03-20-2003, 05:06 PM   #34
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I installed my alarm/RS last night. Easiest install EVER. Even in the dark
thanks for the great instructions!
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Old 04-01-2003, 12:59 AM   #35
ImportVenom
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Thanks for the detailed instructions. I'm going to take it to a pro to install. The shop did have one question though. Does the stock neutral position wire prevent the car from starting unless it is in neutral? What exactly does the stock system use it for? Will a WRX start in gear with the clutch in? Most likely it will - I don't know since I'm still waiting to get a 04 wrx. Thanks!
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Old 04-01-2003, 01:22 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by ImportVenom
Thanks for the detailed instructions. I'm going to take it to a pro to install. The shop did have one question though. Does the stock neutral position wire prevent the car from starting unless it is in neutral? What exactly does the stock system use it for? Will a WRX start in gear with the clutch in? Most likely it will - I don't know since I'm still waiting to get a 04 wrx. Thanks!
yes, it will start in gear with the clutch in.
Not sure what the ECU needs the neutral wire for, and who cares really. It works, that's all the shop needs to know.
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Old 04-02-2003, 01:08 AM   #37
quynce
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Quote:
Originally posted by ImportVenom
Thanks for the detailed instructions. I'm going to take it to a pro to install. The shop did have one question though. Does the stock neutral position wire prevent the car from starting unless it is in neutral? What exactly does the stock system use it for? Will a WRX start in gear with the clutch in? Most likely it will - I don't know since I'm still waiting to get a 04 wrx. Thanks!
It seems to use the neutral wire for regulating cold start idle engine speed. If you notice, when you put it in gear in the morning, the RPM's drop. And no, it doesn't prevent it from starting in gear. The clutch does that; that's why you have to trick the car into thinking the clutch is disengaged.

josh
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Old 04-02-2003, 11:38 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by plastikman8
Sorry for the delay of a couple of days, but for record purposes I would like to mention the "bizzare sequence" for getting out of the car with a Compustar.

It is pretty easy....put in neutral, take foot off brake, pull E-brake, take key out of ignition, leave car...when all doors close the system kills the engine, and arms the alarm automatically...then the remote plays a cheezy little tune....

The toughest part for me is remembering to turn the headlights off before I get out of the car....I have always left them on until now....

As for the system, I just had it installed 2 weeks ago, I do really like it, but I am disapointed by its range....1/4 mile?...maybe on a clear day with the planets aligned, and in a vacuum naw it is pretty good...it just doesn't work with steel buildings very well...and it seems like everything is steel anymore....The remote page is novel...if someone taps the windshield over a sticker in the corner the remote rings...of course this is useless if you are in a steel building...I might have to upgrade to the new spread spectrum next year...supposedly WAY better range. Oh yeah it has a super bright blue flashing LED in the car that illuminates the whole cabin! really cool!

Later,
Hello, I have the new CompuStar Spread Spectrum one. Steel buildings give it a little problem however, the range is terrific and the remote vibrates also. I am a part time installer at Boomer McLoud in Watertown, CT and I installed mine into my 2002 Civic Si. The CompuStar's sequence just needs to see the e-brake come up without the brake pedal depressed so... if you come to a complete stop you can leave your foot on the brake, then activate the e-brake and then release the brake. This way, you won't take a chance of having your car rolling at all. It is very important to diode isolate everything and adding a relay to bypass the clutch is a good idea.

-Jason
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Old 04-10-2003, 08:54 AM   #39
bob847
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Thanks Everyone!
Im doing the MT Remote Start mod today! I cant wait. Too bad IL has moved out of the winter season and is now starting the construction season.

Bob
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Old 04-10-2003, 11:58 PM   #40
dunk
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Just to be clear on The OEM alarm. i would like to completely remove the alarm before installing the aftermarket system. Unplugging the horn and removing the wiring from the glove box to the center console is straightforward. When I remove the starter and horn relay from the steering column area, I will have to jumper two of the wires in the starter relay plug in order to still have current pass to the starter switch. Is this correct?, and if so what two wires do I need to connect. I'm sure that when the car was new there was a plug in there that jumpered the wires, although by now this plug is long gone. I looked up in the dash in the hope that the technician might have left it up there in case the system was removed, but it turns out not to be the case.

-Duncan
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Old 04-11-2003, 01:01 AM   #41
quynce
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Quote:
Originally posted by dunk
Just to be clear on The OEM alarm. i would like to completely remove the alarm before installing the aftermarket system. Unplugging the horn and removing the wiring from the glove box to the center console is straightforward. When I remove the starter and horn relay from the steering column area, I will have to jumper two of the wires in the starter relay plug in order to still have current pass to the starter switch. Is this correct?, and if so what two wires do I need to connect. I'm sure that when the car was new there was a plug in there that jumpered the wires, although by now this plug is long gone. I looked up in the dash in the hope that the technician might have left it up there in case the system was removed, but it turns out not to be the case.

-Duncan
Unless you're planning to sell the OEM alarm, there is no need to completely remove it. I would suggest unplugging the harness behind the glove box that goes to the brain, and removing the keyless module above the fuse box. I didn't even look at the starter interrupt relay. It's passive, so it doesn't cause problems.

josh

josh
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Old 04-11-2003, 11:33 AM   #42
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I do plan to sell the alarm.

-Duncan
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Old 04-11-2003, 04:06 PM   #43
quynce
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Quote:
Originally posted by dunk
I do plan to sell the alarm.

-Duncan
Then you should go to www.subaruparts.com and look at the instructions for installing the factory keyless and alarm systems and follow them in reverse.

josh
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Old 04-11-2003, 05:00 PM   #44
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Yes, I understand that but you didn't read my question very carefully. The cars that don't come with an alarm come with a jumper on the plug that the oem alarm starter kill relay plugs into. When I remove the relay, (following the instructions) without having that factory jumper I will have to know what two wires on the plug have to be jumpered together. If anyone has the pin layout of the plug under the dash it would be quite helpful.

-Duncan
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Old 04-11-2003, 08:04 PM   #45
netZ
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white/red Pin 6
white/black Pin 2

get the wiring service manual.. it's good for you

netZ


Quote:
Originally posted by dunk
Yes, I understand that but you didn't read my question very carefully. The cars that don't come with an alarm come with a jumper on the plug that the oem alarm starter kill relay plugs into. When I remove the relay, (following the instructions) without having that factory jumper I will have to know what two wires on the plug have to be jumpered together. If anyone has the pin layout of the plug under the dash it would be quite helpful.

-Duncan
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Old 04-11-2003, 10:48 PM   #46
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anyone else with a remote start toasted the fuse to the ECU?
I did. I don't know if it has anything to do with the alarm or not.
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Old 04-11-2003, 11:05 PM   #47
netZ
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can you give us more info? ie. when does the ecu fuse fry? during remote start? when you arm the alarm? disarm etc?

what wires have you tapped off the ecu... neutral position switch, tach wire, coil etc? do you have any other non-subaru electronics tapping into the ecu? uni chip etc etc...

thanks!

netZ

Quote:
Originally posted by philip_g
anyone else with a remote start toasted the fuse to the ECU?
I did. I don't know if it has anything to do with the alarm or not.
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Old 04-12-2003, 12:05 AM   #48
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it popped when I was just driving, no remote start.
nothing else tapped in, just the neutral wire, and it's diode isolated.
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Old 04-12-2003, 02:06 AM   #49
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Quote:
get the wiring service manual.. it's good for you
thanks, I actually have the manual, but they were unavailable when I was posting. And I'm a pretty lazy person. Thanks for your effort though

-Duncan
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Old 04-12-2003, 07:43 AM   #50
netZ
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just a few more questions, how often has the ecu fuse pop since you've installed the remote start? if more than once, try disconnecting your neutral wire off the alarm brain and see if the ecu fuse pops. if it does, you may have some other issue. this will eliminate the possibility that the remote start is causing your problem.

let us know how it turns out.

netZ

Quote:
Originally posted by philip_g
it popped when I was just driving, no remote start.
nothing else tapped in, just the neutral wire, and it's diode isolated.
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