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Old 12-26-2004, 02:35 PM   #176
Richard Schaefer
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Default Neutral Wire

Can somebody tell me how exactly how to tie in the neutal wire in the hood pin circuit
I don't want to get wrong ground to the ECU.
Where do I find the connection for Voltage sensing? ( may be under the dash board)

Thanks Rs
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Old 12-26-2004, 07:32 PM   #177
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Year and model of the car? The neutral wire as well as the tach wire are found on connectors going into the ECU. Regarding the neutral wire: Once it is located on the connector a wire is spliced to it and then this wire is run into the engine compartment. Splice another wire on to the end of this wire you just ran through with a diode on one end and long enough to connect to the wire that goes to the hood pin.The stripe on the diode should face the ECU.
Here is a thread which may answer other questions concerning this.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=682417
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Old 12-26-2004, 10:27 PM   #178
Richard Schaefer
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Default year, model

Hi
Thanks very much,

Subaru Imprezza Outback Sport 2001,
I'm just installing a Performance Teknique 7071 Alarm
I don't like to get into trouble starting the car when it is in gear
I' m getting older, and may be Alzheimer is standing soon in front of my door
My other problem is the Voltage sensing.
Can it be connected to the Tach sensing. It works without

RS

Last edited by Richard Schaefer; 12-26-2004 at 10:45 PM.
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Old 12-26-2004, 11:56 PM   #179
valmiki
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Ok I got a question.

So you have the Neutral wire from the ECU. It kicks out -ve when its in a gear, 0v when in neutral


You have the hood pin switch, which kicks out -ve when the hood is open
, and 0v when its closed.

Then we're integrating the neutral out form teh ECU to the hook pin (with a diode of course)

So say I leave my car in 1st gear when I park it, I get out and arm the car...

Its gonna see a -ve on teh hood sense wire and think I left the hood open and bypass that zone when its armed right?

Is there away around this? Or do I have to park my car in neutral to get the hood armed?

Some help / explanations would be nice

Thanks

Valmiki
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Old 12-27-2004, 09:50 AM   #180
netZ
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you answered it... if you can find a low voltage inverter, you could invert the transmissions neutral position switch signal from ground to 12 volts and tap it to the brake input. the inverter could be a miniature relay etc, the power source for this device would be off the 2nd ignition output off the starter relay pack which isn't used.

otherwise, if you leave the vehicle in gear your hood will not be monitored by the alarm/remote start system.

netZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by valmiki
Ok I got a question.

So you have the Neutral wire from the ECU. It kicks out -ve when its in a gear, 0v when in neutral


You have the hood pin switch, which kicks out -ve when the hood is open
, and 0v when its closed.

Then we're integrating the neutral out form teh ECU to the hook pin (with a diode of course)

So say I leave my car in 1st gear when I park it, I get out and arm the car...

Its gonna see a -ve on teh hood sense wire and think I left the hood open and bypass that zone when its armed right?

Is there away around this? Or do I have to park my car in neutral to get the hood armed?

Some help / explanations would be nice

Thanks

Valmiki
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Old 12-27-2004, 09:22 PM   #181
Richard Schaefer
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Default Neutral wire

Do I have to go with the wire up to the hood pin switch or can I also connect it direct bto the port for the hood pin switch on the main unit.

Thanks RS
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Old 12-28-2004, 11:49 AM   #182
Richard Schaefer
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Default Neutal wire conection to hood pin

What happens if I my hood is open and Start my car manual with the key
and the car is in gear? I'm sending 12volt+ from the ECU to the ground of the
hood pin switch! Is this right?
Does it make sense to put also a fuse in the Neutral wire connection to the hood pin

Thanks RS
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Old 12-28-2004, 11:57 AM   #183
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If your hood is open, and your in gear, the car should not start.
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Old 12-28-2004, 07:00 PM   #184
kb2spn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valmiki
Ok I got a question.

So you have the Neutral wire from the ECU. It kicks out -ve when its in a gear, 0v when in neutral


You have the hood pin switch, which kicks out -ve when the hood is open
, and 0v when its closed.

Then we're integrating the neutral out form teh ECU to the hook pin (with a diode of course)

So say I leave my car in 1st gear when I park it, I get out and arm the car...

Its gonna see a -ve on teh hood sense wire and think I left the hood open and bypass that zone when its armed right?

Is there away around this? Or do I have to park my car in neutral to get the hood armed?

Some help / explanations would be nice

Thanks

Valmiki
I do my installations this way but I always arm the alarm manually,this way I am positive the alarm is armed and it will give an extra chirp if something is left open.Leaving the car in gear overides the hood pin.Use the e-brake for a second shutdown.
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Old 12-29-2004, 02:00 AM   #185
Richard Schaefer
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Default

My car kicks out 12 Volt while in gear and Ground in neutral
regarding B135 pin 26
RS
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Old 12-31-2004, 05:04 PM   #186
valmiki
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Ok you'll remote start/alarm gurus... After contemplating lots while tidying up the wiring on the driver's side (I finishe out a roll of electrical tap I came to this.

Ok so we have the relay .. We connect the negative side to the ebrake (so it's only can be activated when its engaged)

We connect the positive to the 2nd ignition wire (so it's only getting +12v when we're in ignition... and since we drive with the ebrake disengaged all the time it'll not get negative)

then we have the NC, NO and the common part of the relay.

We connect NC to ground, so that if somehow the relay breaks it'll see ground.

We connect the NO to the ECU NPS wire.

We connect the common part to the input of the neutral sensing wire..

so with ebrake up and ignition... on it'll pass whatever the NPS is sending out. Otherwise its going to send ground...

Don't think we need a low voltage trigger anymore tell me if someone sees this not working.

Thanks
Valmiki
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Old 12-31-2004, 05:51 PM   #187
kb2spn
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re-think this one,the neutral safety wire will always be grounded,it should see a ground only when the car is in neutral.

Last edited by kb2spn; 12-31-2004 at 06:25 PM.
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Old 01-01-2005, 03:15 AM   #188
valmiki
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no it wouldn't..
the relay could only operate when the ebrake is engaged...

the relay will only operate when the ignition wire has power


having the output of the of the ecu hooked up to the NO connector, when the remote start is activated, the relay will close, and whaterve is on the NO connector will flow through to the common , which is connected to the neutral safety wire of the alarm.

of course putting a -12v on the NC connector of the relay couldn't hurt just to keep things safe if something related to the relay failed.

valmiki

edit: the reason the NC is grounded is if the ebrake is down, the relay will get no power, therfore you don't want it to start

ground = -12v
0v = 0v

don't ever confuse ground and 0v, never the same thing

Last edited by valmiki; 01-01-2005 at 10:24 AM.
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Old 01-01-2005, 11:07 AM   #189
valmiki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kb2spn
re-think this one,the neutral safety wire will always be grounded,it should see a ground only when the car is in neutral.

It should see 0v when its in neutral. When its in gear it sees ground which is -12v
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Old 01-01-2005, 06:36 PM   #190
netZ
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this may not work with the dei alarm/remote start systems since the 'neutral safey sense' wire requires ground in order for remote start and/or valet take over mode to occur.

using your method will allow remote start to occur if the vehicle was in gear and the parking brake is engaged.

a low voltage trigger relay will detect the nps signal and if configured properly send 12 volts to the brake input. this method will allow the alarm/remote start system to properly monitor the hood pin input that would have been typically used in conjunction of the nps/ecu wire.

the best approach so far is wiring the transmission nps switch with diode to the hood pin and the ebrake wire to the neutral safety sense input of the dei system. yes, the hood isn't protected but the rest of the sensors should detect a break in (ie. vibrations etc).

netZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by valmiki
no it wouldn't..
the relay could only operate when the ebrake is engaged...

the relay will only operate when the ignition wire has power


having the output of the of the ecu hooked up to the NO connector, when the remote start is activated, the relay will close, and whaterve is on the NO connector will flow through to the common , which is connected to the neutral safety wire of the alarm.

of course putting a -12v on the NC connector of the relay couldn't hurt just to keep things safe if something related to the relay failed.

valmiki

edit: the reason the NC is grounded is if the ebrake is down, the relay will get no power, therfore you don't want it to start

ground = -12v
0v = 0v

don't ever confuse ground and 0v, never the same thing
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Old 01-01-2005, 09:18 PM   #191
Hayaboosted
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netZ
this may not work with the dei alarm/remote start systems since the 'neutral safey sense' wire requires ground in order for remote start and/or valet take over mode to occur.

using your method will allow remote start to occur if the vehicle was in gear and the parking brake is engaged.

a low voltage trigger relay will detect the nps signal and if configured properly send 12 volts to the brake input. this method will allow the alarm/remote start system to properly monitor the hood pin input that would have been typically used in conjunction of the nps/ecu wire.

the best approach so far is wiring the transmission nps switch with diode to the hood pin and the ebrake wire to the neutral safety sense input of the dei system. yes, the hood isn't protected but the rest of the sensors should detect a break in (ie. vibrations etc).

netZ
I can confirm it does NOT work with DEI/Viper I have tryed it today. Netz's way worked out good.
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Old 01-01-2005, 09:20 PM   #192
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Anyone know the way to bypass the factory alarm when the remote start turns on?? Step by step would help a lot. This is my last part and I will be done!!

BTW.. Yes I do still want my OEM alarm to work
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Old 01-01-2005, 10:28 PM   #193
netZ
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i don't have my wiring schematics handy... so you'll need to do some more research on your particular year model.

but, wiring is simple... the blue status output will be used. if this wire is also used to bypass the clutch you will need to install diode from the blue status output to the clutch switch.

2 relays will be required, bosch type etc.

pin 85 on both relays to the blue status output between the diode and the blue status output of the alarm/remote start unit

pin 86 to ign2 or fused 12 volt source

cut the ignition sensing wire off the subaru security module, make sure you have enough length to work with.

pin 87 to ignition sensing wire subaru security module side
pin 30 to ignition sensing wire ignition side

cut the starter kill relay ouput off the subaru security module, make sure you have enough length to work wiith.

pin 87 to starter kill relay output subaru security module side
pin 30 to starter kill relay starter kill relay side

that's it...

netZ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayaboosted
Anyone know the way to bypass the factory alarm when the remote start turns on?? Step by step would help a lot. This is my last part and I will be done!!

BTW.. Yes I do still want my OEM alarm to work
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Old 01-01-2005, 10:33 PM   #194
Hayaboosted
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Where is that Starter Kill wire from? also do you know what color the wire is?
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Old 01-01-2005, 10:52 PM   #195
netZ
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http://techinfo.subaru.com

$20 will go a long way!

netZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayaboosted
Where is that Starter Kill wire from? also do you know what color the wire is?
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Old 01-01-2005, 11:04 PM   #196
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also what diode will I use?
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Old 01-01-2005, 11:08 PM   #197
netZ
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radio shack 1n4001 or any 1n400x series. make sure the diode is installed in the correct orientation which prevents the clutch from sending ground back to the alarm/remote start system. the diode silver ring (cathode) side facing the alarm/remote start.

wire the 2 relays' pin 85 anywhere between the diode and the blue status output of the dei alarm/remote start system. diode isn't necessary since the blue status outputs ground only during remote start and valet take over mode. the diode on the clutch switch will prevent the clutch from triggering these relays.

http://www.radioshack.com/product.as...%5Fid=276-1101

netZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayaboosted
also what diode will I use?

Last edited by netZ; 01-01-2005 at 11:13 PM.
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Old 01-01-2005, 11:16 PM   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netZ
http://techinfo.subaru.com

$20 will go a long way!

netZ
20.00 a poor brother doesnt got right now! hehe

is it the same as this -> HERE
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Old 01-01-2005, 11:24 PM   #199
netZ
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probably, go check the wiring section for the subaru security diagrams.

netZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayaboosted
20.00 a poor brother doesnt got right now! hehe

is it the same as this -> HERE
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Old 01-01-2005, 11:30 PM   #200
Hayaboosted
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Yeah I have searched and I am unable to find the match.
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