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Old 01-31-2003, 10:30 AM   #1
Blue Goutist
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Default legacy newby needs advice

just recieved 2000 L. Needs brake rotors, good ones. Also when I turn there is a clunk, need a fix for this. not sure if its suspension related or steering knuckle ect. Can someone tell me who the good legacy venders are. Thanks
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Old 01-31-2003, 10:51 AM   #2
cardin555
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For the brakes, DBA make excellent rotors. Have not had the chance to use them myself but come highly recomended. Perhaps subysouth can help here.
As for the clunk in the suspension, check the front stabilizer links. They are often the first thing to go in the front suspension.
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Old 01-31-2003, 11:43 AM   #3
subysouth
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lets see.

Rotors on 2000 L Legacy.

Fronts = 277x24mm [DBA 648]
Rears = 290x10mm [DBA 657]

For the fronts, plain rotors are available from Brembo and Mountain, et al. If you were considering slotted, go with the DBAs. I personally dont like the cross-drilled rotors, but other guys/gals here use them without probs.

As far as vendors, I will leave that to others to suggest. Nino in the vendor classifieds has carried DBA products at better prices than others, but he seems to have inventory probs. Do searches under (brembo and rotors) and (mountain and rotors) as well.

As far as the clunking goes when youre turning, not having heard it, it could also be a cv axle. Is it coming from a discernable side, if so visually inspect the boot on that side. The boot doesnt have to be compromised for the axle to be bad, but a lot of times it is.

HTH

ss

edit: Thought of some other stuff to add.

[Just FYI, I am currently using plain Subaru OEM rotors.]

I usually suggest to people with the 277mm or smaller front rotors to upgrade to the 294x24mm WRX sized front rotors. This is a great and inexpensive upgrade for the front brakes, in your case only requiring new caliper brackets and rotors.

However your case presents a circumstance I think I have not been presented with yet and deserves some discussion.

Your car is equipped with the largest diameter rear rotor(the only rotor larger in DIAMETER is the STi Brembo rear rotor) available on non-STi Subarus. Many other USDM Subaru owners upgrade to this rear rotor. Which means Subaru has factored that higher rear braking force into the system and still has a significant front brake bias assuming worst case scenarios. Meaning upgrading the front rotors is going to push an already heavily front-biased system to an even more front-biased condition. In your case, you might actually see less effective braking by going to a larger front rotor.

Last edited by subysouth; 01-31-2003 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 01-31-2003, 01:57 PM   #4
cardin555
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Question Hmmmm...

I am sorry. I do not see how getting a larger rotor in front would give worse braking performance. The increase in size of the rotor would help in disipating heat and helping to reduce fade. I always thought getting a bigger rotor was a win/win situation with the exception of a slight increase in unsprung weight.

If this (and my understanding of the larger rotor) is incorrect, then I stand corrected.
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Old 01-31-2003, 02:25 PM   #5
aross
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Add to the fact that Subaru realized their problem on the GT's and all the aggressive drivers and for 01 upgraded the front rotor size.

and 02, 03, GT gets a larger rotor - cheap L's the the smaller one..

So, if you are an aggressive braker - get the larger rotor - as you are getting them now....
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Old 01-31-2003, 05:56 PM   #6
Blue Goutist
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well I replaced the rotors 4,000 miles ago, went to pep boys and bought the raybestos (should of went oem, how are they $ value vs DBA). One rotor is already warped. My girlfriend drives the car so there is no need to get crazy with the brakes ie:lots of money, probley go with oem. The clunk noise is not the suspension, It's in the steering collum. I did a search a while back and quite a few my00 legacy owners were having this problem. It does it up driveways. Took the car to the dealer and they said most legacys have this noise and its no problem. very annoying. Thanks again

Last edited by Blue Goutist; 01-31-2003 at 06:02 PM.
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Old 01-31-2003, 06:39 PM   #7
ciper
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cardin555: better mechanical advantage with the larger front rotors plus the already front favoring bias in your car will cause the fronts to have considerably more power than the rears. Your fronts would lock up sooner than the rears causing your braking distance to increase.
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Old 01-31-2003, 07:29 PM   #8
aross
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Aha,

The illusive Legacy Clunk.

Mine was fixed by the dealer replacing the rack

Another member's clunk went away when he replaced his crossmember.

You choose.... If under warrantee push the issue - if not - go turbo and replace the crossmember..

Good luck
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Old 02-01-2003, 12:49 PM   #9
subysouth
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Default Re: Hmmmm...

Quote:
Originally posted by cardin555
I am sorry. I do not see how getting a larger rotor in front would give worse braking performance. The increase in size of the rotor would help in disipating heat and helping to reduce fade. I always thought getting a bigger rotor was a win/win situation with the exception of a slight increase in unsprung weight.

If this (and my understanding of the larger rotor) is incorrect, then I stand corrected.
A larger rotor is always better relative to heat dissipation but as ciper said if the front bias is to severe essentially at the front limit the rear tires are not effectively pulling their load in the process.

I have to admit being a little lucky in the stock setup on my GT. My upgrades are taking the fronts from a 277mm to a 294mm(+17mm) and the rears from a 266mm to a 290mm(+24mm.) All of the caliper piston diameters are equal in number and size. So effectively I have moved the overall bias slightly rearward. This is exactly where you want to be on the Subarus.

For instance, the Stoptech brake kit(a WRX exclusive product BTW) uses a significantly larger rotor but has a 10% drop in brake torque vs the stock WRX 2pots. It was Stoptechs intent to move some of the braking rsponsibility back to the rears to provide optimal performance braking. Subaru assumes a lone driver, an empty fuel tank and then adds some additional front bias when they set the cars up. Thats why people when they upgrade the rear brakes claim the car brakes flatter, its a genuine result.

Its a complicated subject. but thats the jist of it.

ss
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Old 02-01-2003, 09:45 PM   #10
cardin555
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Thumbs up Thanks

That makes more sense Subysouth and ciper.

The clunk in the rack. Our dealer has replace the rack and pump on about 50 or 60 cars. Not dangerous, but just very noisy. I think Subaru is aware of this problem but has decided against a recall thinking warranty work will be cheaper. Our wharehouse always seem to have lots of these racks in stock (anticipating lots of orders, are we?).
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Old 02-02-2003, 07:24 AM   #11
balyndraks
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alright, regarding the brakes. i have a '03 Legacy L-SE wagon. the front rotors are the small 10.7" units. yes, the rear rotors are the big ones you mentioned. i was going to order the cobb stage 2 brake package which includes cryo treated wrx rotors, which are bigger...as mentioned. are you saying that i should just upgrade the pads and maybe go with braided brake lines, etc...leaving the stock rotors in? if so, i guess i could save about $300. thanks.

jay
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Old 02-02-2003, 12:17 PM   #12
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go dba-stylee!

Word.

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Old 02-02-2003, 12:35 PM   #13
subysouth
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Quote:
Originally posted by balyndraks
alright, regarding the brakes. i have a '03 Legacy L-SE wagon. the front rotors are the small 10.7" units. yes, the rear rotors are the big ones you mentioned. i was going to order the cobb stage 2 brake package which includes cryo treated wrx rotors, which are bigger...as mentioned. are you saying that i should just upgrade the pads and maybe go with braided brake lines, etc...leaving the stock rotors in? if so, i guess i could save about $300. thanks.

jay
Yep, thats basically it. I really like upgrading the brakes. But in the 2000+ Legacy(with rear discs) you have kinda a less than ideal situation.

When youre upgrading you want to, at a minimum, maintain the stock f to r bias. Ideally, you want to move the bias a bit rearward to take up some of that built-in excess front bias. So, IMO, if you can upgrade front and rear rotors, as I said above, with the rear upgrade being slightly larger, youre ok. If you have a WRX with the 294 fronts already, you should be able to upgrade the rears to the 290mm rotors also with good results.

IMO the above rotor upgrade will not help to reduce your braking distances. I do agree with upgrading pads, fluids and lines tho. Tho these parts can be had from other sources.

ss

edit: On a side note you should be able to make this upgrade if you can adjust f to r line pressure with a different or adjustable proportioning valve. I believe Legacy777 has done a great deal of work on this problem. You might do a search under his name and proportioning valve.

Last edited by subysouth; 02-02-2003 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 02-02-2003, 12:49 PM   #14
subysouth
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Default I should also note

you can adjust f to r bias by using different coefficient of friction pads as well. I personally like to get as close as possible to the correct bias in the system itself and assume identical pads. But this is a viable practice.

ss
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Old 02-02-2003, 12:55 PM   #15
balyndraks
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so i could get the bigger rotors and use a less aggressive pad in the front/more aggressive pads in the rear? the thing is i have 17" wheels (prodrive P7) and the rotors are looking awfully small. not that cosmetics is my main concern, mind you. thanks for the input.

jay
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Old 02-02-2003, 04:42 PM   #16
subysouth
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Quote:
Originally posted by balyndraks
so i could get the bigger rotors and use a less aggressive pad in the front/more aggressive pads in the rear? the thing is i have 17" wheels (prodrive P7) and the rotors are looking awfully small. not that cosmetics is my main concern, mind you. thanks for the input.

jay
To answer your question quickly, I think it would be possible, but you would need to do some research on pad coefficients.

I reference to the cosmetics, I admit to there being a cosmetic component to my choices as well. Fortunately usually a bigger rotor looks better and performs better as well.

ss
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