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Old 02-27-2001, 10:12 PM   #1
T'impreza
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Post Rear brake conversion questions (kinda long)

OK, finally got a set of rear disks from a legacy to swap out my OBS's rear disks. I was boning up tonight with the latest Chiltons Manual in preparation for doing the mod myself. I'm now left with some questions and am not sure of the feasability of doing the job myself. Thought you folks may be able to shed some light.

First removing the old brakes, how difficult is it to remove rear hubs from the half shaft? Chiltons says I will need a part number 927070000 drive shaft puller. Not excited about the $200 cost (subaruparts.com) Is this really necessary? Can you rent these things? Also, how do I press the new hubs back on? Couldn't find the 922431000 shaft puller you are supposed to use.

Second, fixing up new brakes before installation, what size C-clamp will I need to compress the piston into the caliper bore? What do I use if equipped with a parking brake (which it is)? Chiltons warns "If equipped with a parking brake, use a suitable tool..." Not very helpful. Is a C-clamp the suitable tool?

Third, still fixing up new brakes, to pull the rear rotor from the hub, you are supposed to use two bolts in the two extra holes in the rotor to push to rotor off the assembly. Any idea what size these are? Chiltons simply says 'suitably sized bolts'

Bottom line: Can I do this myself at home? With a friend of two of course.

Any help or insight is GREATLY appreciated. Thanks!

-Tim
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Old 02-28-2001, 05:19 PM   #2
T'impreza
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Question

Anybody out there done a rear brake conversion themselves? Anyone know someone who has so I can PM/e-mail them?
-Tim
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Old 02-28-2001, 05:48 PM   #3
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<FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Webkris was going to do it, not sure if it was ever done. You actually shouldn't need anything to press the piston back in the caliper besides your fingers.

Brian
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Old 02-28-2001, 06:59 PM   #4
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Tim,

Which Chilton's book are you using? Do you have 2WD Legacy rear hubs? Or are they complete AWD Legacy knuckles? Do they have ABS sensors?

From what Kris learned during his research: you'll need to take them to a shop with a hydraulic press to remove the hubs and press them back in. Unfortunately, bearings are very expensive to replace if they get damaged during this process. The local Subaru service department refused to guarantee the work, so Kris never did get his rear disc brakes installed. When I first started shopping for the rear disc parts at junkyards, I was quoted astronomical prices due to the high cost of bearings, especially on AWD models.

When you swap the rotors in, the pistons should already be drained of oil. So you should be able to compress them easily. Like Brian said, your fingers should be adequate. I think the C-clamp is only necessary if there's still pressure in the brake lines.

I'm fairly certain the bolts you're asking about are M8x1.25. Sometimes, a good smack on the rotor (not the lugs) with a hammer works too.

Other than removing and pressing hubs, this is not a very difficult job. I hope you didn't forget the parking brake cables, rubber (or SS) brake lines, and ABS sensor wire connections. You may also require a wheel alignment after you're done.

Hope this helps,

-WaC
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Old 02-28-2001, 09:43 PM   #5
T'impreza
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Thanks for the reply Wayne. I've got the Coupes/Sedans/Wagons 1985-1996 Chilton's Manual. This thing covers Brat, Impreza, Justy, Legacy, Loyale, SVX, XT, and XT-6 '96 so it's pretty general. It's got just enough detail to make me dangerous

The rear's are a complete set of legacy knuckles, parking brake cable and all. I got them from someone who got them from ISR (autocaresubaru). SS brake lines and new pads are in the works. I didn't check to see if they've got the ABS sensors. Thanks for the catch. I'll take a look at them. I take it the drum sensor is different than the rotor sensor?

Hmmmmmm, sounds like I *may* have to take them somewhere to get the work done if I can't figure out how to pull and press hubs. I'm kinda disappointed, but I really appreciate your input. I didn't want to get the job half finished and have to get the car towed to the dealership. Now, how do I pull and press the hubs....

-Tim
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Old 02-28-2001, 10:19 PM   #6
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ahem,

I did the front and rear brake upgrade on my '94 Impreza STD sedan.

If you got the whole enchilada including the rear knuckle assembly, you don't have to worry about doing anything to the hubs(pressing in or out). Just undo the existing bolts that holds on the old knuckle assembly and swap in the new ones.

One thing you have to watch out for, if you have a FWD Subaru is that the AWD Legacy rear disc brake knuckles have a wider mounting point and won't fit the rear FWD crossmember. You can go to my site for pics.

You can use any medium sized c clamps to push back the caliper piston. Even with the brake hose disconnected, you will most likely have to use the c clamp, unless you're the hulk.

Also make sure you're turning the rear brake line the right way to loosen it.

You can go to my site for pics and info.
http://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/lm_22/index.html

[This message has been edited by Aspen (edited February 28, 2001).]
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Old 02-28-2001, 11:06 PM   #7
T'impreza
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See, I am dangerous!
I'm pretty sure I've got the whole enchilada. It's got the housing that attaches to the rear lateral and trailing links, etc. The e-brake cables are still attached as well. Was I worried over nothing? One more question. Is it called the 'knuckle' because of the grooves or knuckles on the inside that mate to the driveshaft?
-Tim

P.S. That's a nice little project you've got going there, Aspen.
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Old 03-01-2001, 06:15 AM   #8
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Aspen's right - if you have the complete knuckles, it's a simple swap. You'll need a 32mm socket to remove the knuckles from the half-shafts.

Check for the ABS sensors - most OBS' have ABS. What year is yours? I'm quite certain the drum sensors are different from disc sensors, although I've never looked at them side-by-side.

-WaC
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Old 03-01-2001, 05:42 PM   #9
T'impreza
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Yeah, I thought about taking it to ISR. I was hesitant because I thought it'd be alot more than $60. That's not bad at all. The only problem is getting down there when open. Any chance you could e-mail me a couple of the choice pics?
-Tim
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Old 03-01-2001, 09:40 PM   #10
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I'll see what I can muster up...
Rich
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Old 03-01-2001, 10:19 PM   #11
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For $60, you better save some time and frustration and have them do it. Heck, even at double that price, it would be worth it.

If you don't have a good impact gun w/ the 32mm socket, you can forget about loosening the axle nut. But then again, yours is a '97.
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Old 03-02-2001, 12:01 AM   #12
T'impreza
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I've got '97 OBS, like yours WaC. It's got ABS. I'll have to check into the sensor issue, I guess. 32mm socket! Wow, that's a big one. I'll also have to pick up one of those somewhere. Thanks for the help. I'm feeling a little better about the swap now.
-Tim
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Old 03-02-2001, 12:31 AM   #13
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Tim my suggestion to you is to go to ISR and have Ed do it as it will be alot more time consuming to do it yourself and possibly save you money. Ed did mine in about an hour (I had the hubs and yes it's a 32mm I have a socket if you need it) and made me feel stupid when I tried 3 seperate times to get this done. But for maybe $60 it's well worth having them do it. I have pics but the web space that I was going to host them in is crapping out.
BTW air tools are a BIG PLUS!!!.
Rich
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Old 03-07-2001, 12:10 AM   #14
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Hmmmm... I've got an Outback Sport ('97) and I recently ordered the components from Aaron's Auto World to swap out the rear knuckles, etc. to convert from drum to disc. They were salvaged from a recent (1999?) Legacy with an engine fire.

Would be nice if someone wrote up the whole process with pictures for the Mods section.

Will realignment be necessary? Also, did anyone figure out if the drum and disc ABS sensors are the same or not? Since it's mounted on the axle (I believe) and not on the rotor, you'd figure that there shouldn't be any difference.

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Old 03-07-2001, 07:17 AM   #15
T'impreza
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I haven't had a chance to check the ABS sensor yet, although I've been meaning too. I'll try to remember to post when/if I find out.
As far as documentation goes, I don't think I'll do mine for another couple months as I'm looking for front rotors/calipers, so nothing soon. If I can get my hands on a digital camera though, I wouldn't mind doing a little write up. When are you doing yours Philipp?
-Tim
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Old 03-07-2001, 09:16 AM   #16
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I have plenty of pics and a write up. I will try and send them to Alex tonight or tomorrow to add to the mod section.
Rich
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Old 03-08-2001, 06:55 PM   #17
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I might do them this weekend unless I get lured into skiing instead. Almost as fun.

Hopefully they will be here tomorrow morning. I've got to borrow a jack, a torque wrench, and find a 32mm socket (yow!). Don't have an airgun.

Forgot to ask Aaron's if they would be including the brake lines or not. I'll probably do the stainless conversion eventually, but not right now.

Are there any things to watch out for in particular, or is it fairly straight-forward? Do I need a second pair of hands?
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Old 03-08-2001, 07:51 PM   #18
T'impreza
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You'll definitely need a second set of hands (monkey paws, feet, or whatever) to help you bleed the brakes. You may also want someone to hand you tools, cold beer, etc. You'll also need to get a new set of brake lines if they don't come with the rest of the hardware. Mine were included. The drum brake lines are not the same length as the disk brake lines and will not fit (way too short).
-Tim
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Old 03-09-2001, 08:39 AM   #19
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Talking

Cool topic! I am about to do a front brake conversion on my 98 ex-OBS. I will be using a set of RS brakes. I brought them to a shop to see how easy it would be to convert the fronts, and they took a look and said it would be no problem. The rear brakes is on my list of things to do. It would be great to see somebody post a write-up with some pictures.

Later,
Seth E.
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Old 03-09-2001, 05:34 PM   #20
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Well, I got the parts (including used Impreza brake lines), but the backing plate that covers the rear of the rotor (disc) looks a bit banged up. It's only to keep debris off the rotor, so I guess it's not a big deal and I can simply hammer/pry it back into shape.

But now I have a new odyssey: where the hell do you find a 32mm Flare Nut wrench????
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Old 03-09-2001, 07:01 PM   #21
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You know why the backing plates are banged up? That's what cars in junkyards sit on after the wheels are taken off.

32mm sockets are available from NAPA, Autozone, Sears...

-WaC
Wayne
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Old 03-09-2001, 10:22 PM   #22
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Sears, NAPA, Autozone... Here I come. You may want to pick up a C clamp and some clear tubing while you're at it (if you don't have them, of course).

WaC, that makes absolute sense. Philipp, mine are banged up just like yours. I was thinking just like you. A little hammer action should take care of that no problem.
-Tim
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Old 03-16-2001, 06:49 PM   #23
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Hmmm... Might do the conversion tomorrow, if I'm feeling brave. Don't have a second pair of hands, so it could prove interesting.

I'm assuming that any DOT 3 brakefluid should be fine (I think I picked up 2 qts of Prestone at Kraggen).

Got the 32mm socket, a bleeding kit, and a beefy torque wrench. Do I need anything else?

I couldn't tell how much brake pad was left on these salvaged rear calipers. Can you get the OEM pads anywhere, or does it have to be a dealer? If I go with the EBC greens, do I have to change out all 4 at the same time? I suppose I could.

One last question: I noticed that the rotor surface has a fair amount of rust on it. I guess the car was in the salvage yard for a while. Will normal operation of the brakes grind off this rust, or should I just go to a brakeshop and have them polish the rotors?

Any idea how much having a shop do the install would be (including removing the rust from the rotors and changing all brake pads)?

Where is ISR and what sort of work do they do? Any recommendations?

Thanks.
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Old 03-16-2001, 07:28 PM   #24
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That brake fluid should work. Don't use a torque wrench to loosen bolts - you may break it. Instead, get a long 18" breaker bar. Use the torque wrench to put the bolts back on.

You should at least take the rust off with some steel wool or sanding wheel. You should be able to get brake pads from auto parts stores, and you don't need to change all four unless they're worn out. The rotors I got were rusted too, so I got them turned at the local service dept (they did a fantastic job).

-WaC
Wayne
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