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Old 02-04-2003, 10:48 PM   #1
Frey Bone
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Default Will price be the deciding factor?

check out this site...


http://mitsubishicars.com/MMSA/jsp/evo/index.jsp

Not a bad package actually, a bit less power but it may be a bit lighter than the sti? 4222 lbs? I'm a die hard subie fan, but if the evo comes in at 28K and the sti scoots in at 35k it would make this a little clearer. MAN i wish they'd get on with it and post some prices for these cars. It looks from this that the lancer is better suited for gravel? It seems that the brakes, while a bit smaller in da, are four pot... still good power, but you'll be able to run smaller wheels for off-road.
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Old 02-05-2003, 04:05 AM   #2
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$28,987 is more closer to $29,000....
STi's price has yet to be announced...
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Old 02-05-2003, 04:32 AM   #3
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Default Re: Will price be the deciding factor?

Quote:
Originally posted by Frey Bone
Not a bad package actually, a bit less power but it may be a bit lighter than the sti? 4222 lbs?
what are you smoking?...the US market WRX STi is not gunna be a 2-ton car
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Old 02-05-2003, 03:20 PM   #4
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4222 is the EVO's GVW. Can someone refresh me on what the difference is between GVW or 4222 and Curb weight of 3263? Is GVW fully loaded with passengers and fuel and/or cargo? FYI we are hoping STi will be the same or less than the EVO.
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Old 02-05-2003, 03:32 PM   #5
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GVW is the maximum rated weight for the car, full of people, luggage, dogs, bags of cement, whatever.

there is no standard difference between the curb weight the GVW, the GVW is based on the safe operating capacity that a vehicle can hold & can be affected by available suspension travel, tire load ratings, balance under load, etc.

the quoted "curb weight" of a car is also often defined differently between manufacturers. there is an official standard for the car's weight as far as the EPA is concerned for figuring fuel economy (one of the suspect reasons for the focus on lower weight in the US STi) but the brochure-published/owner's manual/car magazine tested weigts can all be different as well.

in racing terms you often define vehicle weights as "wet" which means full filled with all fluids but (usually) without the driver.

other times you have a minimum weight which includes the driver.

weight dsitribution figures are also sometimes w/driver others w/o.




Ben
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Old 02-05-2003, 08:30 PM   #6
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Default weight

Thats good stuff Ben, thanks. I did notice that and then looked at the curb weight later and compared them, the evo is slightly heavier (barley) but they too made a big stink about lighter weight- thiner glass, alum hood/side panels etc... they also made note of how they perfectly balenced the car's weight 60/40 F/R which I thought seemed pretty through for litature geared to the American market? Have you seen anything yet on the power split for either of the cars? the mitsu seems to maybe have a bit more advanced power dist. system, but I don't think either will manually controlable like overseas.

John
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Old 02-07-2003, 08:54 PM   #7
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C&D "around $32K" in the latest issue.
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Old 02-07-2003, 10:35 PM   #8
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Yes, price will definitely be a deciding factor.
If all cars cost $10, I would be driving a Porsche 911 Turbo

$35k is too high for the STi. . .
That would make it $10k more than the WRX and about 40-50% more costly.

$30k or lower would be a good price point, in comparison with the WRX and the Evo8
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Old 02-09-2003, 10:48 AM   #9
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if the STi ends up costing more than 32,999.99, i will buy a WRX and go from there.
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Old 02-09-2003, 10:58 PM   #10
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Default any word?

Any word yet on a release date of the price of the car, or cars (evo or sti)? It sure would be nice to quit wondering and just know wouldn't it?
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Old 02-10-2003, 09:38 AM   #11
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Here it will be in the 40K - 41K area pricerange. If you take out 40% ( our importation tax ), you'll see the US price.
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Old 02-10-2003, 10:40 AM   #12
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The three choices:

WRX: 227BHP, ~$25k
EVO: 271BHP, ~$28k
STi: 300BHP, ~$32k (?)

Even without the ACD, the EVO will be a great deal and will take some sales from the WRX. Sure you can pump up a WRX to similar power levels but the EVO will have a full warranty.

Subaru needs to release a "WRX+" which could have the JDM engine spec (247BHP) w/ AVCS, 4 pots, 17" wheels, tires, and perhaps a 6 speed with no DCCD, to fill the gap.

The STi will be seen by some as being great value for including the DCCD setup. And of course 300BHP with a warranty.

But the EVO will own the <$30k >250BHP AWD arena.

And the WRX is still a great buy, if you can "live with only 227BHP", and of course has wagon, automatic variants.

Glenn
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Old 02-10-2003, 11:47 AM   #13
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Thumbs up

I agree w/ Glenn, an upgraded WRX in the ~$29k range to compete w/ the Evo directly and fill the hole in the line-up would be a great idea. I'd say around 250-260bhp, STi suspension and bigger wheels/brakes would be good. Or swap the suspension for a 6-speed non-DCCD 'box (or do both if that's not pushing 'the margin' )

Word.ô

-Milan
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Old 02-10-2003, 11:49 AM   #14
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seems like a good way to look at it, thanks. I can't imagine ever wanting more than 300 bph, but I guess the sti will attract at least some because of the larger displacement, but I think you're right, the sti and evo may not compete as much as the wrx and the evo. So is ~32k the concensus guess so far for price on the Sti?
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Old 02-10-2003, 11:54 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Frey Bone
So is ~32k the concensus guess so far for price on the Sti?
Check out the poll: MSRP poll and see what you think.
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Old 02-10-2003, 01:07 PM   #16
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I just hope DCCD will be an option (although I doubt that will happen). That way you could cut 2k off the price and compete with the Evo. This is really going to be a tough choice between WRX and Sti if the price is abouve 32k.
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Old 02-10-2003, 03:16 PM   #17
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DCCD will be standard on our STi.
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Old 02-10-2003, 09:29 PM   #18
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My theory is that Subaru will lower the price of the WRX to around $22K - 23K or so. Then they will price the STi just a little bit above $30K. That way they'll be competing with the Evo on both sides.
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Old 02-11-2003, 04:29 PM   #19
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I believe that there is another round coming up soon from both Mitsubishi and the Subaru about the specs and prices on the US EVO and US STi. This delay that is there right now, could be just an indicator that something is still cooking in there on both sides!

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Last edited by MrAWD; 02-13-2003 at 02:22 PM.
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Old 02-12-2003, 04:45 PM   #20
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Default Pricing

It seems as though there could be some sort of pricing battle that could errupt from all of this? I mean, companies may put more weight in what the other guys are charging insted of what they normally would.

Another point I thought of:

What if the guys who set the pricing for these cars just cruze around our site and others figuring what we are willing to pay and go from there, that is, we could be setting our own prices? ie: it is our concensus that the car will cost ~32k so therefore it will because that's what we will pay?

who knows
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Old 02-12-2003, 05:32 PM   #21
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Default Re: Pricing

Quote:
Originally posted by Frey Bone
It seems as though there could be some sort of pricing battle that could errupt from all of this? I mean, companies may put more weight in what the other guys are charging insted of what they normally would.

Another point I thought of:

What if the guys who set the pricing for these cars just cruze around our site and others figuring what we are willing to pay and go from there, that is, we could be setting our own prices? ie: it is our concensus that the car will cost ~32k so therefore it will because that's what we will pay?

who knows

Exactly.. we should hang those that keep claiming the car will
be more than 30k!!!! (that might include myself..)
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Old 02-13-2003, 12:26 PM   #22
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Default my next question is...

Oh, don't be too hard on yourself, I think we've all been wowed by all the cool and down right sick stuff Subaru has pulled out for the Sti.

My question is: How does one go about getting a job in that area of business, that is gathering data used to determine pricing. I.e. doing benifit/cost analysis, leading focus groups, and critiquing methodologies used by others to collect data for the same reason....
I'm graduating after summer term '03 and have been thinking of a job that will allow me to afford one of these cars. That and I'm just plain scared of being done with school. Itís even tougher now because my lucid morning post-snooze/pre-wakeup dreams are filled with visions of me double downshifting from 6th to 3rd in the Sti one morning, and then getting huge air and drifting on gravel in the evo the next.

Mmmmmmmm Brembos...... What's it like not to have brake fade? not to have to constantly worry about warping your rotors, or pushing the pedal only to find its hard as a rock and if you stopped, smoke would billow from all four corners?
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Old 02-14-2003, 03:30 PM   #23
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Just a thought...

The success of WRX for Subaru surely meant a lot to them. It gave a light for Subaru to pursuit to build its brand image as "Sporty car brand", just like how they are perceived in their home, in Japan.

Remember, AWD is not such a special feature these days. Because of the lack of availability for AWD-passenger-car in US, it might seem so special. Subaru's instant success on Outback wagon has proven that there is a market for AWD family car, however, the path Subaru is following is just like what they followed in Japan more than 10years ago.

Since their introduction of first 4WD (not AWD at that time) passenger car in Japan, Subaru sold more 4WD than anybody else for a while. However, Subaru lost its title long time ago when other companies started introducing AWD model. Mazda was the first one to build AWD in Japan (remember 323?) followed by Mitsubishi (Galant) and Nissan (Bluebird=stanza). These days, almost all model sold in Japan, you can choose optional AWD (yes, even Geo Metro=Suzuki Cultus had AWD model)

Since Subaru introduced Legacy in 1988 in Japan, they tried so hard to build up its brand image as "sporty". The instant success of Legacy wagon in Japan was because of its concept as "Driver's wagon = sporty handling for station wagon", and introduction of Impreza was to persuit such image.

So, my point is, I am sure Subaru knows the success of Outback and AWD are not gonna be enough to keep them alive. There will be more competitors, possible followers, or other stronger company, such as Toyota has already started showing its ability to introduce AWD (like Matrix).

Thus, I am pretty confident that Subaru will build a strong model line-up of sporty models in US. Introduction of Turbo model for its exiting line-up is a proof (Forester XT and new Legacy turbo to follow). That's a bright future isn't it?

In Japan, Subaru will introduce their first mini-van in August, built on new Legacy chasis (not to confuse with Traviq, which is a result of GM allience). Minivan is neccesary for a company to survive in Japan these days because its profitability and huge market. However, again, Subaru will forcus on not-minivan-like handling, because of its low center of gravity resulted from Boxer engine to compete in this already crowded market.

So, how about Mitsubishi? Mitsubish itself is a much bigger company than Subaru and they have to focus on more global market. For such a global company, they cannot pursue such a small market like "sports/speciality car" as their mainstream. Instead, they have to build cars that can be accepted by many people. That's the huge difference between Subaru and Mitsubishi.

But first of all, it has to be noted that Mitsubishi is in the middle of financial crisis right now. Mitsubishi is even resting from WRC until their financial situation get turned around. Japanese media is almost certain that Next Evo (IX due next year in Japan) will be the end of Lancer-Evo history. Instead, Company is preparing to introduce "Colt" Evo (just like tarmak Spyder shown in Chicago Auto show) with >300ps with sequantial transmission after all. This car is based on their newest compact car "Colt" which was introduced in Japan few months ago, built on Mitsubishi-DaimlerChrysler chasis. Mitsubishi is depending on this car (Colt regular models) for its own survival.

I am not certain Mitsu- is gonna bring this Colt-Evo to US. This might be too small for US market. Furthermore, I am not even sure Evo IX will make it to US. It probably depends on how well they can sell VIII in US this year.

The point for Mitsubishi is that they are not wealthy enough to pursuit "sports" at this moment. Their focus right now is to build a better financial foundation by introducing easier selling car to more global market. Introduction of new SUV cross-over vehicle like "Endevor" might bring a goodness for the company, but EVO certainly won't turn them around to be wealthy.

So, two different companies with very different aspect, the battle between STi and Evo, once seemed so excited, looks different now, isn't it?

Sure, Evo is a nice car, but I am so proud of driving Subaru

"T"

This has nothing to do with the thread, doesn't this? Sorry...

Last edited by Cefiro26; 02-18-2003 at 01:54 AM.
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Old 02-14-2003, 03:44 PM   #24
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Oh, forgot to ask. Does anyone know if Mitsubishi seeks about bringing its another Turbo model (AirTrek Turbo=Outlander) to US? That might be a good competition for Forester.

"T"

I am going off and off from the topic... sorry again...
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Old 02-16-2003, 08:39 PM   #25
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Great post! Lots of good info/insight. Thanks!
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