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Old 03-21-2001, 06:39 PM   #1
GTBGUY
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Old 03-21-2001, 06:51 PM   #2
Jon Bogert
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Question

GTBGUY, do you actually work for KVR? I e-mailed them an inquiry regarding AP brakes today.
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Old 03-21-2001, 07:01 PM   #3
GTBGUY
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Jon Bogert - Nope, don't work for them at all I'm all the way out in Calgary (Western Canada) they're out in Ottawa (out East).

The only relationship I have with them to be able to get the wicked deals for fellow i-clubbers is b/c KVR is sponsoring my car. Instead of money etc, they allow me to offer fellow i-clubbers the same price I get my stuff for. Plus, I've used alot of their products even before they sponsored my GT...
I've had their pads and rotors on my Hybrid '92 Civic Si, '97 Accord EXR (for road race/street) and numerous other cars that my friends had.
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Old 03-21-2001, 08:05 PM   #4
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GTBGUY,

I have two quick questions:

1. Will this setup work on the 2002 WRX?

2. Do the AP Racing Ultralight calipers have the dust seals?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 03-21-2001, 08:17 PM   #5
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When I emailed KVR about the AP brakes months ago all they did was give me GTBGUY's email and told me he was the supplier I should be going through. Sounds like some sort of a business arrangement to me. Or KVR doesn't want to talk to the retail market.

How much for just the fronts, no lines or fluid?

These pads the CF ones for the rears (All Years) or just the 98 to mid 99 only?

[This message has been edited by david2z4 (edited March 21, 2001).]
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Old 03-21-2001, 08:59 PM   #6
GTBGUY
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Fishbulb - answers to your Q's

1) Yes it will work on the WRX (if they can use the exact same stuff as the RS)
2) I will have to check for you.

david2z4 - Dave, this kit was specifically designed for me, hence the reason why they asked you to contact me. They don't usually do retail that for custom kits, mainly race teams etc approach KVR for their stuff.

The CF pads are only for the earlier models, I can see if I can get something else for the '00-up
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Old 03-21-2001, 09:52 PM   #7
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Correct me I'm wrong, sounds like the rear calipers are not included (or are they?). If not, wouldn't the brake bias too forward with 4 pot in front and 1 pot in rear?
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Old 03-22-2001, 12:25 AM   #8
GTBGUY
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Question Anyone interested in an AP Racing 4-pot 11.6" BBK GB?

Ok here's what the kit includes :

(2) AP Racing Ultralight 4-pot calipers
(2) 11.6" X-drilled or slotted rotors w/ cadmium plating.
(2) Brembo x-drilled or slotted rotors w/ cadmium plating for the rears in OEM RS size.
(1) Full Stainless Steel brake line kit (F&R)
(1) Hawk HP + Hi-Performance street pads (4pot)
(1) KVR CF pads for the rear
(1) All necessary brake fluid (AP Racing DOT 5.1)
(1) All necessary mounting hardware etc.

Good thing is that these will clear the 16" RS wheels no problems

If I can get 3 people, each kit is $1950USD including shipping!

These kits are custom made by KVR Performance in Canada. They supply many of the North American race teams with custom brake kits.

http://www.kvrperformance.com

Please post here if you're interested!

[edited to fix url]



[This message has been edited by GTBGUY (edited March 22, 2001).]
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Old 03-22-2001, 09:00 AM   #9
GTBGUY
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david2z4 - Dave, ok, just the fronts which include :
(2) AP Racing Ultralight 4-pots
(2) 11.6" x-drilled or slotted cad. plated rotors.
(1) Hawk HP+ pads
Cost is : $1550US shipped.

This kit is $600US cheaper than the Brembo kit from SPO. As a bonus, you can still mount your OE 16" wheels to use for the winter.

kgb - you also have to factor in that our cars are awd, when you slow down, even if they are no brakes in the rear, the rears would also have to slow down. (this is shear physics). If our cars were FWD's on the other hand, then there would be a huge front bias.

KVR uses this set-up on many Audi A4's and S4's running the 4-pots up front and leaving the OEM single pots in the rear. The stock '99 Legacy GT,can out-brake the Audi A4 Quattro 1.8T in stock form, so if this AP system is used on a Legacy (which is ~ 400lbs) heavier than the RS, it will be totally fine for the RS.

I hope that helps!
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Old 03-22-2001, 09:47 AM   #10
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Exclamation

Just thought I'd post a comparison of the Subaru 4pot(F)/2pot(R) upgrade vs. the big brake kit.

(All prices are found from the following URL)
http://www.autocaresubaru.com/brakes.html

- Subaru 4 pot unit for the front:
$899US + shipping (doesn't include x-drilled or slotted rotors, no cadmium plating, no stainless steel lines)
- Subaru 2 pot unit for the rear:
$580US + shipping (does not include rear pads,or stainless steel lines)
- Stainless Brake lines (f&r) :
$129.95US + shipping

Total: $1608.95US + shipping (remember this is missing front x-drilled rotors, as well as rear brake pads, and High performance brake fluid.

I'll just list the differences betweem the Subaru set-up vs. this big brake kit (BBK) GB setup:
PROS
- BBK has lighter calipers
- BBK has larger rotors (11.6")
- BBK's rotors are x-drilled an cad. plated
- BBK has rear pads as well
- BBK has AP Racing DOT 5.1 brake fluid
CONS
- BBK doesn't have 2 pot rears and vented rear rotors.

Price difference between Subaru and this BBK GB :

$1950US - $1608.95US(which is not including shipping) = $341.05US


So there's some food for thought!
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Old 03-22-2001, 07:14 PM   #11
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Old 03-22-2001, 08:19 PM   #12
Patrick Olsen
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Let me start by saying that I am intrigued by this KVR kit, primarily because it will clear the 2.5GT rims, something that the STi 4 pots won't do. With that said, I have to question the cost comparison just a wee bit.

First, if the KVR kit is using stock-sized rear rotors and stock rear calipers, why are we throwing in the 2 pot Subaru rear setup for comparison? I can put Brembo rotors and Mintex pads on my stock rear brakes for about $250 (I can get Brembo front rotors for $45 each, so I'm assuming the rears would be roughly the same, plus $125 or so for Mintex 1155 rear pads). So now we're comparing apples and apples, and we've just knocked $330 off the price of the Subaru setup. Price difference is up to $671.05.

Next, the STi 4 pots are available for $699 from www.subaruparts.com (I think that's the right site). So, now the Subaru option is $871.05 cheaper. Brake fluid - $15 for excellent ATE Super Blue. Cross-drilling is not needed nor desired. Cad plating is kind of nice, I can get all 4 rotors done for about $125 (including shipping). So now the Subaru 4 pot setup is only $731.05 cheaper than the KVR setup. In the spirit of comparing apples and apples, we could get the rotors cross-drilled or slotted for about $150 for all 4 rotors (shipping will be included with the shipping for cad plating - there are a number of places that will do both for you). Oh, and I don't know how good the pads are that come with the Subaru 4 pots, so we'll get some good performance pads to replace the "stock" pads - so, another $150 there (rough guesstimate for some really good pads, probably less). So now I've saved $431.05 by going with the Subaru 4 pots and some aftermarket stuff.

What am I left with? Smaller (lighter?) rotors up front with heavier (by how much?) STi 4 pot calipers. Similar or better pads and rotors all around. I'm not sure I can justify paying that much extra just to get the 2.5GT wheel clearance. And realistically, in my case at least, my savings would be more like $700 or so since I wouldn't bother with the cross drilling/slotting or cad plating. With that money I'm well on my way to some nice 17" rims to complement my big new brakes.

So there's some food for thought!

Edit: On a more productive note, is there a site somewhere that gives some details about the AP Racing calipers? I know the name has a very good reputation, but I don't know anything about specific caliper models. One of the posts above raised a very good point about dust seals - how "street-able" are these calipers for long-term use? Are the pistons staggered bore? Are the STi 4 pots' pistons staggered bore for that matter? How much lighter are these AP calipers? How big (surface area and thickness) is the pad compared to the STi? All that stuff would play into my decision on whether or not the KVR kit was worth the $$$.

Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
Devil's Advocate

[This message has been edited by Patrick Olsen (edited March 22, 2001).]
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Old 03-23-2001, 09:19 AM   #13
GTBGUY
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Fishbulb -

Ok just to get back to you : Yes the AP's have dust seals. Infact here's more info for you guys :

http://www.apracing.com/roadcar/caliper/data.asp

The Caliper used in this kit will be either the CP5200 or CP5500 caliper.

Patrick Olsen - If we're just comparing fronts w/ out anything then this would be the more valid comparison :

(2) AP Racing Ultralight 4-pots
(2) 11.6" x-drilled or slotted cad. plated rotors.
(1) Hawk HP+ pads
For $1550US shipped

As you listed from Subaru Parts the price for the 4-pots are : $699US + shipping, but does not include pads. Plus say $150 + shipping for a comparible front brake pad then we're
at $849US + shipping... so let's just say shipping is $50, kit total would be $899US.
The difference would be $651US.

The Subaru 4-pots are made of cast iron, and thus are heavy. The AP Racing calipers are 2.6kg each, which is approximately 5.72lbs/ caliper. The stock GT front calipers which are 2pot weight in at almost 10.00lbs, so I'm pretty sure that the 4-pot Subarus are equally has heavy or even more so.

So one big advantage to going with the AP BBK is the overall less unsprung weight, as well as increased braking power. Also, you could save the money from buying bigger wheels and leaving the stock 16x6.5" alloys obsolete, to get something else!
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Old 03-23-2001, 11:06 AM   #14
Patrick Olsen
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Thanks for the link. I didn't see the CP5500 listed when I selected the 4 pot caliper list. Based on their specs, the CP5200 would not be what this kit is using, as its minimum rotor diameter is 315mm (12.4"). I'm thinkin' you meant the 5100 series, which is only 1.9kg and can use an 280-295mm (11-11.6") rotor.

Pat
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Old 03-23-2001, 04:11 PM   #15
GTBGUY
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Patrick Olsen - yup, I was thinking of the 2 piece rotor kit.
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Old 03-23-2001, 08:00 PM   #16
gimpster
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Are you sure this kit will clear the WRX wheels? A guy in the NW tried on a set of the Sti brakes and they rubbed the inside of the stock WRX wheels. I think this is due to the fact that the WRX has a narrower wheel than previous RS's (6.5 vs 7 on the RS). Can you verify if this will fit on the WRX?
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Old 03-23-2001, 09:51 PM   #17
GTBGUY
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gimpster - The Legacy GT has 16x6.5" wheels just like the NEW WRX. So if it'll clear the stock GT alloys, it'll clear the new WRX.
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Old 03-24-2001, 08:24 AM   #18
Patrick Olsen
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Quote:
Patrick Olsen - yup, I was thinking of the 2 piece rotor kit.
OK, now I'm even more confused. The website doesn't say anything about rotors, it just lists the caliper models and the specs for each caliper. Included in those specs are the max/min rotor diameter and the rotor thickness. None of that has anything to do with 2 piece vs. 1 piece rotors.

So, are the rotors provided with this kit 2 piece or 1 piece? If they are 2 piece, how expensive is it to get a new rotor section? Is it a standard sized rotor that I could get from any place that sells 2 piece rotors (ie Coleman Racing or TrueChoice), or would I be anchored to KVR for replacement parts?

Do you already have this kit on your GT, and if so can you post some pictures?

Quote:
The Legacy GT has 16x6.5" wheels just like the NEW WRX. So if it'll clear the stock GT alloys, it'll clear the new WRX.
You are probably correct, but there is much more to caliper clearance than just the rim width. Offset is going to make a difference (both the GT rims and the new WRX rims are +55mm, so that's good), and most importantly the design of the spokes of the rim will make a huge difference. I haven't looked closely at a new WRX to see how deep the spokes are. How tight is the clearance on your GT rims, GTBGUY (a number, please, not just "it's pretty tight")? If the clearance on the GT rims is tight, say 2mm, and if the WRX rims' spokes are deeper, say 2mm deeper, then you'll have a problem, regardless of the fact that rim width and offset are the same.

Pat
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Old 03-24-2001, 05:08 PM   #19
Patrick Olsen
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OK, I just misunderstood your comment about the 2 piece rotors. When do you expect to have the 11.6" kit on your L with the GT rims? I'd definitely be interested in seeing how it looks.

Pat

Edit: Well, I was just looking back through AP's site and it turns out there are a number of variations on the 5200 series caliper, including versions that will fit on a 290-315mm (11.4-12.0") rotors. So, I guess the deciding factor will be the rotor thickness. The 5200 series that would fit a 11.6" diameter rotor is designed for a 32mm (1.26" (Wow!)) thick rotor. The 5100 series can fit either a 22.9mm (0.9") thick or 25.4mm (1.0") thick rotor in the 11.6" diameter.

The plot thickens!

[This message has been edited by Patrick Olsen (edited March 24, 2001).]
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Old 03-25-2001, 12:28 AM   #20
GTBGUY
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Patrick Olsen - The 5200 series caliper is for the 2-piece rotor kit that has the 12.4" rotors. (No where previously did I mention that the 11.6" rotors are 2 piece) This is not the kit I'm referring to for this GB... as listed it's the 11.6" size, single piece rotor.

As for the clearances, I will have to check on those.

As for the AP webpage not mentioning anything about the rotors, that's b/c these kits are custom, not just off the shelf parts and slap them together kinda deal.

I don't have the 11.6" kit on my GT, I'm getting the 12.4" kit on my GT, I will be running the 11.6" Kit on my '98L which uses my GT wheels.
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Old 03-26-2001, 12:14 AM   #21
GTBGUY
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Pat - I'll be getting the 11.6" kit on my L with the people in on the GB. KVR guaranteed me that they would fit, so they'd better! I'll check on the thickness of the rotors that will be used on this kit. From the sounds of it, the new WRX's share quite a bit of similarities with the GT's situation.
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Old 03-26-2001, 07:23 PM   #22
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bump
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Old 03-28-2001, 11:25 AM   #23
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Anyone else interested?
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Old 04-05-2001, 09:05 AM   #24
GTBGUY
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Old 04-05-2001, 09:25 AM   #25
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out of curiosity, what about getting the calipers, rotors and pads (how much $$$)? I already have ATE Super Blue fluid (an unopenned liter at that) and SS lines.
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