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Old 02-17-2003, 06:02 AM   #1
spiralsmurf
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Default gauging interest on titanium internals and flywheel

I'm gauging interest as to how many people would consider titanium pistons? My cousin owns a machine shop with multiple CNC machines, vertical mills, and well basically has all the tools to make pistons, rods, and even flywheels for that matter. He's considering doing work in titanium and was wondering if there would be a market for these or any other products you can suggest.

Let me know,
thanks danny.
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Old 02-17-2003, 06:06 AM   #2
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i'm assuming cast design, would these be stronger than forged aluminum?
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Old 02-17-2003, 06:38 AM   #3
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not sure. can titanium be forged? titanium is generally stronger than aluminum and much lighter.
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Old 02-17-2003, 10:42 AM   #4
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Is titanium safe to run with so much pressure and heat? It would also expand at a different rate then the aluminum block so would that be an issue?
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Old 02-17-2003, 11:13 AM   #5
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ill only be interested if its the strongest avalible (hmm, now what would dom toretto get )
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Old 02-17-2003, 01:15 PM   #6
Chuck H
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I've heard of people getting titanium rods, but never titanium pistons. I'd think a lot of R&D would have to go into that to make sure that the design works with the differing expansion rates of the pistons and block, as well as the pistons and rings, etc. It's not going to be a simple undertaking to design titanium pistons.
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Old 02-17-2003, 01:44 PM   #7
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FYI:
strength to weight ratio, from light to heavy:
Titanium
Aluminum
Steel

Ultimate Tensile Strength from strongest to weakest:
Steel
Titanium
Aluminum

Mass per volume from lightest to heaviest:
Aluminum
Titanium
Steel

Basically, since you're limited to a certain dimension, you want to stick with steel for strength and durability.
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Old 02-17-2003, 01:45 PM   #8
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I wouldn;t run titanium pistons on the street but that is just my opinion. SO no, I would not be interested.

And as far as internals and flywheel, are rotating assymbalies are light enough because of the boxer design. you really don;t want any less rotating mass. You will run into bearing problems and other various problems in the long run

Eric
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Old 02-17-2003, 01:50 PM   #9
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You can't use titanium for pistons...Ti dosn't work well with heat.
The tolerences will be too tight. Meaning piston to wall..they won't expand.Ti dosn't like to be heat cycled..Rods on the other hand..If you could do a set for under 1g i am in...Gerry
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Old 02-17-2003, 02:11 PM   #10
spiralsmurf
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ok. so the general consensus is that titanium is not good for pistons. he could definitly make rods, but he doesn't want to just make one part at a time. he wants to make a bunch. he's not a store, he'd rather do volume than mark up. so if you know people who'd buy numerous sets, then we could work it out.
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Old 02-17-2003, 02:16 PM   #11
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Actually rods would be a very good Idea and I stil think it would be a good Idea to try and make a lightweight Flywheel outta Ti
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Old 02-17-2003, 03:27 PM   #12
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Ti would be way too light for a flywheel. it wouldn't even be a flywheel at that point, more like a paper plate. if we could work out a group buy of 10 sets, i could work out some pricing details.
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Old 02-17-2003, 03:30 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by spiralsmurf
Ti would be way too light for a flywheel. it wouldn't even be a flywheel at that point, more like a paper plate. if we could work out a group buy of 10 sets, i could work out some pricing details.
ummm... they make aluminum flywheels, which is lighter than ti.

all aluminum flywheels have a steel insert for the clutch
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Old 02-17-2003, 06:41 PM   #14
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Wouldn't a titanium rod require a special bearing since the metallurgy involved in titanium. Titanium is supposed to grab onto other metals so it might damage the crank unless designed carefully. At least thats what the guys at RPS used to say.
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Old 02-17-2003, 08:33 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Eric v2.0
And as far as internals and flywheel, are rotating assymbalies are light enough because of the boxer design. you really don;t want any less rotating mass. You will run into bearing problems and other various problems in the long run

Eric
You are kidding right? Boxer design has nothing to do with rotating mass. You are still accelerating and stopping the rod and piston as the crank spins. Lighter weight, while retaining tensile strength will always help.
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Old 02-17-2003, 08:47 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by wawazat


You are kidding right? Boxer design has nothing to do with rotating mass. You are still accelerating and stopping the rod and piston as the crank spins. Lighter weight, while retaining tensile strength will always help.
The design of the boxer makes for a very short crank. That decreases rotating mass.
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Old 02-17-2003, 08:49 PM   #17
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pauter makes titanium rods for $548 per piece. i can guarantee that my price will be around $500 cheaper for the set of 4. i need to get a couple people who are interested so we can do a run of maybe like 10 sets.
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Old 02-18-2003, 12:21 PM   #18
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That's not that great of a price considering there hasn;t been any R&D on it. I'm sorry but I can't trust someone who just made a set of rods on a CNC and slap them in a 20 grand engine.I'm sure he may be a good machinest but that's a chance some people are not willing to take.Ti rods can be bought from C&V in australia for $1,100..Also what kind of rod is he going to copy? H-bean, X-beam..ect....
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Old 02-18-2003, 05:27 PM   #19
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this is true gerry. he does not build car parts and we were planning to design the rods based off other designs and have someone test it out for us.
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Old 02-18-2003, 06:11 PM   #20
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i need valve spring retainers made, see what he can do for those.

jeremy
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Old 02-18-2003, 06:24 PM   #21
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Too bad we can't use parts from other designs like using the Pulsar N1's stock titanium valve spring retainers in a SR20DET motor.
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Old 02-18-2003, 06:40 PM   #22
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no problem with the retainers, but my cousin isnt going to make one set, theres no reason for him to do it. so if you can find like 5-10 people interested then we can run a set.
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Old 02-18-2003, 07:02 PM   #23
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You've got a second taker on valve spring retainers.
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Old 02-18-2003, 07:44 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by spiralsmurf
no problem with the retainers, but my cousin isnt going to make one set, theres no reason for him to do it. so if you can find like 5-10 people interested then we can run a set.
i'll find you 20-30 buyers but i need an idea on a price

jeremy
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Old 02-18-2003, 08:23 PM   #25
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who currently makes Ti retainer. i need to find out how much it weighs to guide price.
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