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Old 02-18-2003, 09:16 AM   #1
boko
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Question STi waiters - what other cars did you consider?

As I mentioned in one of my other posts I got on a waiting list for the STi.

To spend $30 some thousand on an Imprezza makes me wonder what else I should give a hard look at. There are some nice luxury/sport sedans starting in this price range but nothing for this amount of money will be able to touch the STi performance wise and that's whats drawing me. What else did you guys consider? Wife likes the WRX wagon and I agree it would offer more utility at a better price but I'd always be thinking about the mind blowing performance of the STi (why don't they bring the wagon?). Anyone care to comment? Anyone with similar thoughts?
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Old 02-18-2003, 10:12 AM   #2
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It depends on what you want. I am going through the same issues. I love the performance of the STI and am willing go without the luxury, although the STI is its own kind of luxury. My fiancee wants something a little more cushy, so I've agreed that we'd look. We've test driven and considered the Volvo S60, Saab 9-3 linear, Audi A4, Acura 3.2 TL S, Accord EX V6, and the Infiniti G35. The Volvo and Saab were not the sport versions ( pushes cost to around $36) but already met our price limit when loaded to her specifications, great ride but those cars are about as exhilarating as taking a nap, they pretty much drive themselves even with the mt versions. The Accord was just that, an Accord, even she agreed with that. The Acura is nice but still just not soul touching. The Audi is fun and comfy, plus there are things that can be done easily to make it more fun, but I still remember my early days when I worked at an Audi dealer ('93, also sold Porsche, VW, Saab, and mazda) and saw the Audi's come in by tow truck by the half dozen. I know they are better now but some images will never leave. The new 6MT G35 was a blast to drive and nice feel. You can tell its got reflexes and power while giving a more supple ride for those of a non-sport demeanor. If Nismo starts selling parts soon it will be harder for me to justify not getting the G35 and sacrificing touring comfort that she wants. I want the STI because.... it won't touch your soul, it'll be more like giving your soul a kilo in one line and one quick 4.6 sec inhale(without the death part, hopefully).
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Old 02-18-2003, 10:17 AM   #3
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Talking Considered several, actually

You're right - there are lots of options in the 30-40K price range for cars. I'm still considering several vehicles at the current time, but the STi still manages to rank highly in my books. Here's a snapshot of what I'm looking at:

'03 Mustang Cobra - It's fast (test drove one this past weekend), very receptive to modfication, tough, and built to take a beating. The interior isn't bad either. It's simplistic on the inside, but good enough for me. Score: A

'03 350Z - It's quick, sexy, and available in the track edition. However, the interior is about par with the Cobra, and its underpowered for it's weight. The track edition is also too much $$$ for what you get, IMO. That damned rear strut brace also aggrevates the hell out of me. Score: B

'01-'02 Z06 - Got balls. Got grip. Got plasticy interior (really, it's not that bad). Got mid-life crisis written all over it. But it's also receptive to mods, and makes a kick-ass daily driver for a single guy. The insurance premiums are a killer, and it only seats 2. At my price point, I have to look at used versions...which could be trouble since sports car mileage tends to be hard mileage. Score: A-

'01-'02 M Coupe - Questionable looks, cramped interior, but BMW performance. This car just sings. Handles, accelerates, and brakes like a dream. Again, I have to shop in the used bin to find a copy below $40K. It's not receptive to engine mods (she's pretty high-strung as it is), unless you want to invest serious cash, and maintenance/part replacement can be VERY expensive. On the + side, she's got usable room in the form of a hatch. Score: B+

'02 Audi TT coupe - Huge body roll. Anemic engine for the TT's weight. Great ergonomics and fit-n-finish. Outstanding looks. Seats 4 (but only if the two in the back are circus midgets). A better cruiser than a serious sports car. Score: C (if I wasn't into perfomance, I'd give it an A-)

'03 S2000 - Fun roadster with a tight winding engine. Not enough torque to make me happy. Kick ass shifter. Overall, not my cup o' tea. If she had twice the displacement, I'd be all over it. Score: C

'02 S4 - 4 door sedan that'll surprise you. Very good interior materials and a solid feel. Understated looks. Exceptionally receptive to modification, but high octane fuel and parts (read: $$$) are required to play with the big boys. Also needs some suspension work to make the handling on par with other offerings. A very effective sport sedan. Thank goodness for Audi CPO. Score: B

As you can see from above, I've definitely been cross-shopping. 2 seaters can do the trick (see Z06), but I'd prefer 2+2 or proper 4 person seating. Interior materials rank third on my scale importance (beaten only by performance and tunability), so not having specially imported Brazilian baby manatee seat covers doesn't make for a dealbreaker. Also, brand names be damned. Hell, if Kia made a kick-ass sports car along the lines of the Z06 for $22K, I'd be first in line to test drive it. (editors note:
...now returning you to reality...)

So it's come down to three choices: STi, Cobra, and Z06. Tough call from my perspective - all three excel in their particular arenas, and I really can't go wrong in selecting any one of them. Anyone care to chime in?

<sorry for the length of this post - I might as well have written a novella>

James

Last edited by jcochran; 02-18-2003 at 10:24 AM.
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Old 02-18-2003, 10:58 AM   #4
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JCochran, excellent post. However, I am surprised that you think the '03 Cobra interior is acceptable. IMO, I think the interior of the Cobra is very cheap feeling and outdated. Yes, it is a VERY fast car, but it doesn't feel expensive to me. $30K+ should buy you an interior that was not designed a decade ago.

The 350Z could use a little more in the power/weight department, but that thing HANDLES like crazy. That strut brace bothers the hell out of me too. If I were to buy something like this car, I would go for the G35 coupe. More luxury, and better roadholding. Also, two people can reasonably fit in the back (as long as they are not too tall).

Part of the STi's charm is that it is a sedan that kicks the butt of many so called "sports cars". I think its unfair to see it put up against 2 seaters with more specialized purpose, but it is inevitable due to the price. The S4 is the same way, but it is such a PIG that much horsepower and suspension tweaking is needed to overcome the weight.
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Old 02-18-2003, 11:04 AM   #5
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havent considered any other cars. I currently own a MY00 RS and love it..plan on keeping it. If the STi wasn't coming to the US, I wouldn't be buying a new car, I'd probably pick up a new motorcycle or something. My RS is still a great car, and with 31,000 miles on it, there's no reason to get a new daily driver.
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Old 02-18-2003, 11:50 AM   #6
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Default Nothonotus, sounds like were on the same page

The Volvo's looks are getting better or I'm just getting older but I'd want the S60R and if you get the AT for the wife it lower the torque #'s. Plus this would put me close to $40k.

I think the Saab 9-3 has good looks but haven't researced enough to know what performance you get at what price. Maybe I should check further but you say it was kind of bland driving, huh? Also don't know enough about reliablity or resale value.

Audi A4, love the styling, quattro is great, but if it only had more hp. The options can push price up fast. Best looking wagon around.

BMW dealer snubbed me when I asked if they had a M3 to test drive. Why sales people don't treat everyone as an opportunity is beyond me. I was considering this car because of the SMG (wife prefers auto) but wasn't sure if I wanted to part with that much money. A test drive could have sold me but I guess he has to much business?!

Acura/Accord don't do anything for me.

Infiniti G35, (I like the 350Z but 2 seats with no storage doesn't work) now this one is interesting. I've seen at dealer but never driven. Gets rave reviews in the mags and the price is reasonable. The wife likes the look of coupe and so do I. I have to come up with a reason why we need the MT when an AT is offered, hmmm. Recently test drove a WRX, do you think there is any comparison here? Does Nismo usually offer hp upgrades or just suspension stuff?

Test drove WRX last night with short shift kit and the wife had to agree it was easy to drive and a dream in the snow. The only thing was the wife doesn't understand why we need to pay up for the STi when the WRX is quick itself. Well, honey it's because...........
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Old 02-18-2003, 12:46 PM   #7
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The Saab was the linear, the higher hp and spt tuned suspension versions (arc and linear) will be coming out in March but increased price. My research indicates that the re-sale on saabs is awful in part due to the off main stream market/people these typically appeal to. The reliability is about the same as current Volvos, which from my research is about 50/50 on getting a factory lemon. Saw some stories about the Saabs stalling on test dirves while going around left hand corners at 15-20 mph, not sure why.

I couldn't explain to my fiancee or financial guru why I would need to take out enough for an M3.

The G35 6MT shifts with ease and would be a good car to learn to drive a MT on, as my fiancee would be doing. I think the STI might scare the.... out of her if she tried to learn on it.

As for there being a comparison between the WRX STI and the G35...I feel it's just a trade off of performance for luxury. The G35 and STI meet my needs in that both have more room than a two seat sports car and are fun to drive for a reasonable price (assuming ~30k for the STI again). STI will be more fun for me but could wear on her during trips. I would be very happy with the G35 and figure that I could add some Nismo parts as they come in but that starts adding to the end price. As far as I know with the line up of Nismo parts scheduled to show up here in the next few months (speculation) one will be able to up hp/torque and/or improve the suspension. I'll stop there before they move this, check g35driver.com. I just overlook the post that start with "True dat".

A couple other things I've been considering are the insurance and LEO encounter rates for both cars, unfortunetly the STI loses those comparisons hands down.

I know which one is the responsible choice but hell...I still can't give the STI up. I am constantly talking its finer attributes up to the fiancee, she's agreed but I get that suspect feeling of feminine subterfuge at work...
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Old 02-18-2003, 01:07 PM   #8
95MPower
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Default same deal here...

Great posts guys

1. STi (the ultimate but even though I'm number 2 on a dealer list, I worry about trusting a car salesman on anything)
2. G35 (if the Subaru dealer starts talking lots over MSRP or a longer wait)
3. Lancer EVO
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Old 02-18-2003, 01:20 PM   #9
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You guys might want to consider the Mazda RX8 as well.
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Old 02-18-2003, 01:27 PM   #10
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Arrow Re: same deal here...

Quote:
Originally posted by 95MPower
Great posts guys

1. STi (the ultimate but even though I'm number 2 on a dealer list, I worry about trusting a car salesman on anything)
2. G35 (if the Subaru dealer starts talking lots over MSRP or a longer wait)
3. Lancer EVO
I'm surprised nobody mentioned the EVO earlier. I guess most of the posts were more geared at $30K and up cars. Perhaps the EVO is more of an option for people who are stretching a little to get to the (speculated) price of the STI.
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Old 02-18-2003, 01:34 PM   #11
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Default RX8

Good point Scott_Gunn
I loved driving the old RX7s but this new RX8 seems like it is going to have a hard time competing with the STI and those above. From the magazine reviews it seems like it will be less power/speed, but maybe (not sure but I don't think so) slightly more responsive/agile than the STI. And not nearly as cushy as the G35. I failed to mention it because I ruled it out early and haven't thought about it in a while. That's just personal feeling/judgement (or BS if you want) though and I don't mean to say it doesn't deserve to be considered in the same group.

added...
I ruled the evo out due to the reports of it being even lower in the creature comforts than the STI and the fiancee wouldn't have it no matter how much I tried. Could start a thread titled 'wife=comfort=sti or ____'
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Old 02-18-2003, 01:40 PM   #12
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95mpower, I was told I'm #2 on the list also. My dealer seems to have been straight and his responses mimic everything I've learned on the board. Some other dealers in the area have been way worse. Anyways the one fact he told me which I haven't seen on the board yet is that Subaru dealers are broken into regions and allocations are allocated on total subaru (individual dealers) sales in Jan, Feb, and March. He said they had a record Jan and that this bodes well for me and their dealership. Sounds reasonable but has anyone else heard this?
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Old 02-18-2003, 02:18 PM   #13
95MPower
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Default Boko...

I believe my dealer when he tells me about the spot on the list etc.

I'm more concerned about them trying to jack up the price which I think is absurd considering the cars in this price range. I want the STi more than anything. That said, I will not get completely screwed just to have one.

My dealer claims his dealership may get a few extra STis for being #1 in customer satisfaction in his region. Most say it's just on sales volume. I guess we'll see!
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Old 02-18-2003, 02:56 PM   #14
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Good post and responses...

I currently own a E36 M3... looking for something either very
different or much faster...

I end up with just two cars.... STi or Z06...
Was a bit interested in the Cobra too... but the recent factory
halt scared me a bit... Seen EVO's interior in person... I think it's
worse than the Cobra's...
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Old 02-18-2003, 03:08 PM   #15
95MPower
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Default JT....

you giving up the M also?

I'm just trying to judge when my car will be here so I can sell the M around the right time.
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Old 02-18-2003, 03:19 PM   #16
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Default Re: JT....

Quote:
Originally posted by 95MPower
you giving up the M also?

I'm just trying to judge when my car will be here so I can sell the M around the right time.
Yup.. the car still runs great at 72k miles... probably just need
new rotors soon... handles great and everything (i'm sure you
know.. ).. but just been itching for a new car for a while now...

Almost bought a new Z06 last december.... but decided to wait
for new incentives... what a bad idea... GM took away all
incentives for vettes early Jan this year.... Anyways, might not
be good idea since C6 is just around the corner...
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Old 02-18-2003, 03:24 PM   #17
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Default My 95 is a gem...

59K miles and no problems at all.

Guess I just got bored with the car. Too $ to get to 300hp on the ///M!
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Old 02-18-2003, 04:59 PM   #18
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I am going to be purchasing next spring.

Most of the Cars on my list have already been hit-

STi - probably currently my top choice, but I Want to see some real reviews of it.
BMW M3 - A little faster, a much better interior, but heavier and 20 grand more... :-/... I love BMW, I really do, but I don't know if even I can justify that...
BMW 330i Performance package (just announced)... supposedly lighter, .5 faster to 60, with a taughter suspension then the stock 330. I look forward to seeing the reviews
G35 coupe - I've taken a good look at these cars and I must say they're really nice. the interior is great. But optioned how I want it pushes the price close to 40k. I'm not sure 5k more is worth extra luxury, considering that the STi is lighter, AWD and has 20 more hp...
350Z - shoddy interior, 2 seater, fast as hell but is it worth it?
Lanzer Evo VIII - don't like how they're being marketed (hate the F&F crowd) not infatuated with the look either... so probably not even going to look.
Used e36 M3 w/AA stage-2 turbo (and suspension mod) - the BMW I love with earth-shattering performance. I don't think I want to worry about the reliability of a heavily aftermarket car though.
USed 993 Porsche - great handling, not as fast. also worried about the problems involved with used ownership.

That's about it.

-Scott
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Old 02-18-2003, 05:40 PM   #19
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2003 cobra
Z350
G35 Coupe
Evo VIII
MKIV Supra Used
RX8
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Old 02-18-2003, 05:48 PM   #20
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My check list:
Purpose built for performance (before luxury)
True "track manners"
AWD
0-60 under 5 sec
20-25 mpg
4 doors (and a trunk)
3100 - 3300lbs GVW
$32K - $34K
High assembly quality (if not materials)
New car warranty

What are my other options (please don't say EVO)?

Last edited by Turboy; 02-18-2003 at 05:58 PM.
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Old 02-18-2003, 08:44 PM   #21
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Default Nothonotus...

Quote:
Originally posted by Nothonotus
My fiancee wants something a little more cushy, so I've agreed that we'd look. We've test driven and considered the Volvo S60, Saab 9-3 linear, Audi A4, Acura 3.2 TL S, Accord EX V6, and the Infiniti G35.
With your fiancee's requirements in mind, and a budget in the vicinity of the STi, you might also think about giving a BMW 325 with the sports suspension package a test drive. MSRP just under $30K.

Stu
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Old 02-18-2003, 09:40 PM   #22
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Default Cobras and other cars

The Cobra interior was fine for me. Nothing to really whine about, but also nothing to write Ma about, either. Yeah, some hard plastic trees had to die in the construction of the car, but no biggie. So long as the parts work, and nothing goes straight to hell in a big hurry, I don't care. You just need to look at it from the right perspective (read: lie to yourself) - it certainly looks better than a $8000 Kia!

I looked into the BMW offerings, 99-02 M3's included. They're great cars out of the box, but to really make them howl takes serious $$$. Worse, you're gonna pay for that little propeller icon on your hood. No matter. Some guys are willing to part with big money to have the panache, performance, and luxury. Good for them. Me? I've owned two bimmers, and I donna think I'll ever own another again (reliability issues, really sorry fit and finish, and excessive cost).

Here's my diatribe on the RX-8: All you imbeciles (I say this in general, not in direction to anyone on this thread) who think it's a formal replacement for the RX-7 need to get informed. It's a fully functional 4 door, 4 seat sedan with a compact shell, outstanding handling, and a very novel engine. It's a little spendy, though. As cool as the new RENESIS is, it's definitely torque challenged. Sure, sure, gearing does help, but it's no barnstormer. Once Mazda turbocharges it or ups the rotor size 10mm, it may then become a contender for my attention. Until then, it's just a neat RWD sedan offering with exceptional agility.

Here's something I haven't seen much on, but crave (in one of those weird, can't-quite-explain-it ways): The Mini Cooper S. Now that the 200 hp (up from 163) offering is close to fruition, this little beast looks like a hoot! For the money and the options, it sure makes it's mark. The fact that all the auto mags rave about it only compounds my lust. Anyone driven one of these personally?

James
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Old 02-18-2003, 10:44 PM   #23
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BMW makes a great mark but I have to agree with jcochran in that I'd be paying more for some blue and white enamel than quality. Hell, my dream is an M5 but it'll be a while before I can touch that and still feel like a responsible person.
Yes, the fiancee has quite a bit of leverage but not the final say... until june 21st at least (btw SOA please get it out before then and get me mine that much sooner).
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Old 02-18-2003, 11:30 PM   #24
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I'm getting an STi for ONE reason primarily... pure performance. The fact that it has 4 doors and a real back seat (for my 20 - month old) is a bonus.

Bang for the buck there is no other car that can even come close to competing. For twice the meney there are few contenders. Even at three times the cost there are only a few that perform better.

I have not considered any other car... There aren't any to consider, IMO... that is... in that price range. My dream car is a Ferrari 360 Modena. Can't afford that yet. But, the STi is going to give me a grin so big it will hurt at a price I can afford.

STi = supercar / exotic car performance for <$35,000. Amazing. GOTTA HAVE IT! I can't wait to have it out at the track with the Porsche Club. Even with my '02 WRX I get lots of curious visitors. Those who know what the WRX is come talk to me before the track sessions. Those who don't know what it is come talk to me after the track sessions to find out what the hell that little black car is that they couldn't keep up with!

Mike
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Old 02-19-2003, 09:12 AM   #25
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Default jcochran, i test drove Mini Coop S

James we tried out the Mini S because we both agreed it looked cool and for the price I had to see what the mags were raving about. I didn't know they were working on one with 200 hp but that's interesting. The Mini S with 163 hp felt way under powered to me (only could rev to 5k rpm, salesmans request). I mean it would move along with traffic fine but I never got any sense of excitement (maybe taking to redline would help). Now the shifter was smooth as butter and even a rookie could drive this car smoothly. Also the short wheel base allows this to corner with ease. Interior had a very nice look and although it was mostly plastic it felt good. Seats were comfy although forget about putting someone in the rear. Had six airbags and dynamic stability control so they definitely put some thought into safety. My two drawbacks were that you can't put anyone in the back and most importantly safety. I just can't believe a Cooper wouldn't take the brunt of a collision with a minivan or a SUV. With the optional BBS wheels the car is a real looker for the price. Go check one out the dealer was all about going for a test drive.
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