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Old 02-18-2003, 09:18 AM   #1
Idjiit
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Default Long-term engine plan?

I'm going to post this in News and Rumors, since nothing here can be much more than speculation...

I'm a little concerned at the present moment for Subaru's general direction towards more powerful Turbo-based cars. While I think Turbos are great for performance enthusiasts (I'm sure BMW, Ferrari and Porsche would disagree - but that's a different thread) in the current world climate, it seems like a dangerous basket to put all your eggs in. Turbo's require higher octane, and when driven hard are pretty fuel inefficient. This makes the Total Cost of Ownership higher than it would be otherwise. I'm feeling the pinch currently, and I'm only paying around $1.80 per gallon - I don't even wanna think of what I would be paying if I was still in California.

Now, the argument I'm making here isn't necessarily that they should be offering better flat-6's, but that they aren't balancing this out at all on the other end of the spectrum. I know that at one point there was a Subaru Hybrid concept, but I haven't heard anything about it. Practically every Subaru in the line is using a 2.5L engine of some sort and if I recall correctly, none of the cars are getting better than 30 mpg. Without a doubt the AWD format poses problems to any Hybrid solution, so I accept for the moment that it isn't quite as easy as creating a Civic Hybrid (although surely it is only a matter of time before you see a Hybrid 4WD CRV).

Does anyone have any rumours (or better yet, news) on Subaru's direction in terms of pursuing a Hybrid car for those of us who don't need a fleet of 300hp monsters?

If you don't have any news, what would you like to see?

I always said that I would never buy a non-Subaru car, but the reality of my situation is that my fiancee will be traveling over 60 miles a day once she's back in school, which makes the fuel economy of a Hybrid car very attractive. I also would ideally like to leave a smaller footprint on the planet before I go, and I believe that the biggest impact a single person can make in life is through their buying decisions - right now the Civic Hybrid seems like the way to go for our second car.
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Old 02-18-2003, 10:02 AM   #2
rsholland
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Default Diesels!

If Subaru has any intention of making a real dent in the European (or world) market, it will need to have a good turbo-diesel. There have been some recent rumors that Isuzu and Subaru may be teaming up on just such an engine. BTW, the word "diesel" and "performance" can be used in the same sentence; just look at the new crop of diesel cars from Europe, especially those from BMW.

Bob
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Old 02-18-2003, 10:37 AM   #3
SUBE555
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Well I think many of us are thinking similarly even though we would really like to see performance, fuel efficiency is a big issue as well. We all know resources are limited and there has to be a new direction we are moving. I personally think hydrogen-based fuel in the answer. Now many of you might be thinking fuel cell, that's not really my idea of efficient. It takes just as much energy to produce the hydrogen fuel as if we keep burning regular gas. What I would really love to see is something similar to the concept in the movie Chain Reaction, turning hydrogen fuel from a glass of water into hydrogen that can be burned in an internal combustion engine so we can have efficiency with performance. It is possible, but I am sure the oil/gas companies are not very keen to that idea. Greed is the root of all evil and that will hinder technologies like that from coming forth within the next several years even if they are already possible.

Something on a note closer to reality, I would like to see the next generation of the EJ25 (Phase III) push about 175hp but with something like 24/32 for fuel mileage. It could even use a CVT transmission (yes, I said CVT,shoWRoX) or a 5MT or 6MT. The Impreza line will likely lose a nice deal of weight for the next itteration as Subaru has stated they are looking to reduce weight across the board. With a target weight of around 3100Lbs for the base Legacy, the next Impreza will probably target under 2800Lbs and be closer in size again to the GC8 Impreza body but much stronger.

So I guess that is a little info and a little wish, but I don't think it is impossible within the next 15 years. I don't hold much hope for fuel cell technology as it is big, bulky, and potentially dangerous if in an accident. Just my feelings on that matter though.
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Old 02-18-2003, 12:07 PM   #4
Mike Wevrick
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I'd love to see a nice turbo-diesel or hybrid Subie. Our next 2nd car will probably be a Honda hybrid.
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Old 02-18-2003, 01:01 PM   #5
Doug DeRosa
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Well, we know that Subie is working on both hybrid and fuel cell technology. My recollection is, upon showing the HM01 in Geneva and Tokyo in 01, Subie announced that they were committed to developing AWD hybrids throughout the model range.

http://www.edmunds.com/news/autoshow...2/page019.html

Last edited by Doug DeRosa; 02-18-2003 at 01:22 PM.
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Old 02-18-2003, 06:26 PM   #6
NYCshopper
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i just want a hybrid like the Acura DN-X (Honda Dual Note)



400HP w/ AWD...and still gets 40mpg!!!
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Old 02-20-2003, 10:56 AM   #7
bluesubie
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Maybe there's an agreement that GM will pay the CAFE fines.

I'm surprised that they dropped the 2.2L engine here. Before will get a hybrid, perhaps we'll get an NA 2.0 or 1.8.

-Dennis
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Old 02-20-2003, 01:24 PM   #8
Albert
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Quote:
Originally posted by bluesubie
I'm surprised that they dropped the 2.2L engine here. Before will get a hybrid, perhaps we'll get an NA 2.0 or 1.8.
-Dennis
I'm thinking that unless Subaru introduces a vehicle that weights less than the Impreza TS a smaller engine will not sell well. Our AWD cars are heavy which I'm certain attributed to less of a demand and the eventual demise of the 2.2L in North Amenrica a few years ago.

On the other hand if the stated smaller displacement NA engines are reintroduced they will need to be a smaller package, more efficient, and more powerful. If this cannot be achieved they should stick with the 2.5L, just keep refining it primarily for better effiiciency while continuing work on the rumored hybrids and diesels.
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