Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Monday September 22, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Archives > NASIOC Archives > STi Forum Archive

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-18-2003, 09:42 AM   #1
JohnnyFantastic
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 25626
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Default Too much power to handle?

I'm 2nd on my dealer's waiting list for an STi, and saw it at the Toronto auto show yesterday - probably the nicest looking car at the show. Over this past weekend I co-drove the Ontario Winter Rally (my first ORRC TSD rally). There were 2.5 RS's and WRX's just smoking us all night. It made me realize that my driving skill is probably not at the level to push a WRX, much less a 300HP STi. Now, after the rally, I'm seriously considering trying to get a deal on a bug-eyed WRX instead of the STi.
For those of you getting an STi, do you feel that you can handle all that power? If you can, where are you going to run the car? On the track, or in rallies? Just curious to hear some opinions.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
JohnnyFantastic is offline  
Old 02-18-2003, 10:53 AM   #2
SUBE555
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 24043
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Neenah, WI
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT Sedan
Silver

Default

Rallying off-tarmac is a whole other deal that driving on road courses and wide-open roads (where I'd take mine if I were getting one.) I find my slightly modified Legacy GT isn't the greatest in the snow either (though I don't have dedicated winter tires.) Most should be able to handle the STi on dry roads IMO, but as to if you will 'open it up', that's all up to the driver. Just don't treat it like many old people pamper their hot BMW, Mercedes roadsters, Mustang Cobras etc and kill the spirit of the car.
SUBE555 is offline  
Old 02-18-2003, 11:28 AM   #3
Jude DeMeis
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 491
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Boston, Ma, USA
Vehicle:
1995 Legacy race car
Pan Am Blue

Default

Unless you live somewhere rural you're not going to be able to "open up" the STi very often unless you are prepared to say bye-bye drivers licence. STi Subarus are so fast that they can be driven at double the speed limit. I have an STi conversion and I've already been charged with driving to endanger (got off in court) and numerous tickets. The car is just too fast to really unleash on public roads unless you live in the middle of nowhere.
Jude DeMeis is offline  
Old 02-18-2003, 01:25 PM   #4
Pocon
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 17479
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Toronto, On - Canada
Vehicle:
1999 Impreza WRX
Silverthorn Metallic

Default

I was talking to one of the reps at the Canadian International Auto Show, and he mentioned that Subaru is looking to offer a car-control school as an "added feature" to the STi. _Essentially, Subaru is following in the steps of other high-performance car manufacturers and actually going to teach people how to drive the car!!
Pocon is offline  
Old 02-18-2003, 01:39 PM   #5
Nothonotus
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 32577
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Knoxville, TN
Vehicle:
2000 Chevy Tahoe
Dark Blue

Default

Now that would be great, not to mention responsible. Sign me up now...
Nothonotus is offline  
Old 02-18-2003, 01:56 PM   #6
LinuxGuy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 17270
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Vehicle:
1998 Fender Bender
Holds 1000lbs.

Default

Wouldent be surprised if they are people who buy STi's that its going to be there first/learner manual car.
LinuxGuy is offline  
Old 02-18-2003, 03:34 PM   #7
skuttledude
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 738
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Southern Ohio USA
Vehicle:
2008 Lexus IS-F
Ducati Monster 800

Default Re: Too much power to handle?

Quote:
Originally posted by JohnnyFantastic
I'm 2nd on my dealer's waiting list for an STi, and saw it at the Toronto auto show yesterday - probably the nicest looking car at the show. Over this past weekend I co-drove the Ontario Winter Rally (my first ORRC TSD rally). There were 2.5 RS's and WRX's just smoking us all night. It made me realize that my driving skill is probably not at the level to push a WRX, much less a 300HP STi. Now, after the rally, I'm seriously considering trying to get a deal on a bug-eyed WRX instead of the STi.
For those of you getting an STi, do you feel that you can handle all that power? If you can, where are you going to run the car? On the track, or in rallies? Just curious to hear some opinions.
"Do you feel you can handle all that power"
IMHO, It really depends on what you have experience with. I would not recommend the STi or even a WRX to a 16 year old with a new license. However (and this is not meant to brag) I believe I am capable of driving the new Sti. 300 hp and 300 pounds of torque is going to be wonderful. It makes it even easier when there is power going to all 4 wheels.

I have experience in racing schools in USA and Europe, and have driven some rather insteresting exotics including a F355 Challenge car (on a F1 racetrack) and a 650 horsepower twin turbo Porsche 911. (BTW, 650 hp is a handful when there is only two wheels powering the car and the engine is south of the rear axle..however it was still a blast)
Experience driving, racing and officating (Safety Car driver) on a racetrack was most helpful too. With all that said and done, I still have much to learn about driving physics and car control.

If the Sti was 2 wheel drive, with all that HP and torque goig to the front wheels, not only would that be dangerous but also not much fun. (imagine massive torque steer, and ridiculous traction problems)
In the Sti's current state, I wouldn't think there should be many problems. However, the biggest and best way to handle a STi is to leave it in the garage and go to some driving/racing schools.
Since you are already involved in rallying, you are off to a good start. Car control is key*.

Good topic.

Truly,

Davis
skuttledude is offline  
Old 02-18-2003, 06:45 PM   #8
MYSTi
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 30743
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia CANADA
Vehicle:
2002 Subaru WRX
WR Pearl Blue

Default

I own a '02 WRX and raced it last summer in autocross (SOLOII). I pushed that car pretty hard, and it never once felt out of control. You almost have to try to upset these cars to get in trouble. Stomp on it at the apex and you might go into a 4 wheel drift out of the turn, but you never notice it they way the car feels - very pointable. I expect the same level of control for the STi, but I would expect to treat it with a little more respect when I first get mine on the track this summer.
MYSTi is offline  
Old 02-18-2003, 07:09 PM   #9
ellisnc
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4229
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Dublin, OH, USA
Vehicle:
2003 S2000
Did someone say track day

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by MYSTi
I own a '02 WRX and raced it last summer in autocross (SOLOII). I pushed that car pretty hard, and it never once felt out of control. You almost have to try to upset these cars to get in trouble. Stomp on it at the apex and you might go into a 4 wheel drift out of the turn, but you never notice it they way the car feels - very pointable. I expect the same level of control for the STi, but I would expect to treat it with a little more respect when I first get mine on the track this summer.
the amount of trouble you can get into on an auto-x course is minimal compared to that at an high speed race course. A 4-wheel drift at 30mph exiting a corner is a lot different than pitching the car into a kink at 90mph.
ellisnc is offline  
Old 02-18-2003, 07:33 PM   #10
totoherbs
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7321
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: waltham, ma
Vehicle:
.... 122 IggPoints
Work... ahhh... so tired.

Default

No at this time in my life, maybe after some driving schools, I could not handle the power.... and I think a lot of people who are jumping on this bandwagon cant either.
totoherbs is offline  
Old 02-18-2003, 07:49 PM   #11
shirokuma
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 5489
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: The Empire of Seattle
Vehicle:
2013 FR-S
AVO Orange

Default

Given the amounts of crash reports on the standard WRX turbo, there is definitely quite a few people who wouldn't be able to handle a STi at full blast. It's up to their discretion to ever drive it anywhere near 8/10's, though.

I brought this up somewhere else, and I think it's worth repeating here. An AWD car is the last car you would want to experience as your first high-power vehicle. High-power RWD cars warn you way ahead of time that you are getting over your head, they are very communicative of the fact that you are approaching limits. The fact is, they warn you way before you've actually approached the limits, which is why good drivers are so fast in RWD's, because they know where the real limits are. It also limits the damage to the new drivers, because they let go so easily at lower speeds that the impact of the tree/guardrail/ditch isn't quite so bad.

AWD cars lie to you. They cosset you, they claim that you aren't driving anywhere near the limit. You will feel like a F1 stud, zooming through a corner at 3 times the posted limit. Then it lets go and you find yourself heading at the ditch with no recovery possible. The STi and the Evo will let you do things that used to be in the realm of semi-professional drivers only. But once you've exceeded the limits of physics, they'll dump you into the trees faster than a girlfriend whose birthday you've forgotten.

If you wouldn't feel comfortable with a Corvette Z06, definitely don't touch the STi.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
shirokuma is offline  
Old 02-18-2003, 08:16 PM   #12
LinuxGuy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 17270
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Vehicle:
1998 Fender Bender
Holds 1000lbs.

Default

Reminds me of a saying:

"if its too loud, your too old"

LinuxGuy is offline  
Old 02-18-2003, 08:27 PM   #13
emulous
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 31655
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hartford, CT
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GTL Wag
SWP

Default

I know that 300hp/300lb torque is more than I'm capable of driving at it's limits. My first mod, will be to myself going to an awd performance driving school, I believe there is one in New Hampshire. Sure it might cost 3K but I think it will be the best money spent.

I ran in Auto-X for the first time this summer having traded in my 2.5RS for a front wheel drive SVT Focus, I found Auto-X was a great way to learn the ability of myself and my vehicle. I would suggest it to anyone who really thinks they know their abilities and their cars. It's very safe if they follow scca rules and with one, sometimes 2 cars on the track and speeds usually under 35, there's not much damage you will do to yourself or your car, with the exception of ego possibly. You may need some rubbing compound for the marks rubber cones may leave, but other than that, if you don't go to crazy and they've laid out the track correctly, you shouldn't be running into anything.

I've driven the 2.0 WRX and know that it would be the obvious next step, but I don't mind having to learn to drive a car properly before I can lay it out and have fun in it without killing myself or someone else.

And for those of you looking for back roads where you'll believe you're in heaven, head up to central and western Maine, not too many cops and the roads will leave you with a grin so big, your spouse will think you've have an affair with a supermodel.
emulous is offline  
Old 02-18-2003, 08:31 PM   #14
Frederf
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 15622
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Campbell, CA
Vehicle:
2002 WRX SW
WRB

Default

Reviews of the STi7 have said that the car "flatters the driver" which should be encouraging.
Frederf is offline  
Old 02-18-2003, 09:26 PM   #15
metoo
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 4764
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston
Vehicle:
2004 STi sold :(
forizzle

Default

shirokuma hit it right on the nose.

It's not the power necessarily, its the false sense of security the car gives you. It make you feel like you are a better driver than you really are. This is where the problem comes in.

I had a Z28 that I never attempted to maneuver like I do my WRX. The Z would swap ends in a split second. The WRX is a whole new world.

If you think 300hp is too much for you then it probably is. A 400hp STi would be just right for me.
metoo is offline  
Old 02-19-2003, 12:27 AM   #16
944 turbo guy
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 12601
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Columbia,Md.
Vehicle:
2004 WRX-STI and wrx
white on gold

Default track record....

I am a driving instructor @ Summit Point Raceway. I have been driving on the track since 1994, I auto crossed from 1987 (GTI) to 1992. I have raced SCCA and NASA with a Porsche 944 turbo.
2400 lbs, 400+ hp, 14.5 inch brakes. I hace competed in indoor karting and attended shifter kart schools in Florida.

This past fall I won my first Pro race with the Panoz series and have tested with 2 Speedvision World Challenge teams.

When I was 17 my parents went to Germany, and I decided I would stay home and joyride my moms 911 !! After nearly totalling it on a 270 degree turn, I realized I wasnt as good a driver as I had thought,...this isnt a priveledge most have, so my opinion is that most people cant really push a 300hp anything to anywhere near its limits without alot of luck !! Its not something that just "comes to you",...you have to be put in situations over and over to know how to react. I look at my video from my last race and can point out mistake after mistake, and thats on a track I have driven over and over( Road Atlanta).

Last but not least, I am not bragging, I am just trying to paint a picture,..I have a looooooong way to go before I would call myself a Proracer,..

I watch student after student come to the track with cars modded to the sky, and cant drive,..and everyone will try to scare the instructor, we tend to get the last word.!!

Spend some money on driving schools and learn some car control and loose the ego that only works from light to light.........

JUST MY .02 CENT WORTH,....

944 TURBO GUY
944 turbo guy is offline  
Old 02-19-2003, 12:38 AM   #17
944 turbo guy
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 12601
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Columbia,Md.
Vehicle:
2004 WRX-STI and wrx
white on gold

Default track record.....

I want to apologize if I sound like a assh---, it's just I have watched inexperienced drivers with high horsepower cars KILL themselves at the track and on the street. The one thing that no-one ever wants to spend money on is,......themselves,..your own driving,..and it's the cheapest. Big brakes cost $ 900-1500-, ask that same person, about a 1 days school @ skip barbour,...they'll give you million excuses,..yet the big brake kit comes next day air,..so there is a reason behind my attitude. Maybe one day I'll be able to have Statefarm and Allstate sponsor a accident avoidance school @ regional tracks across the US and this will teach people basic car contol and reduce insurance rates.

944 turbo guy.
944 turbo guy is offline  
Old 02-19-2003, 07:48 AM   #18
Neek
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3400
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Vehicle:
2013 Gojira
2007 Triumph Speed Triple

Default

Might be too much for some people...

But it's going to be a heck of a lot of fun finding out!

The WRX has too much power for some people, as evidenced by the number of wreck posts.

Granted, with this kind of power on tap, the chance for disaster is a little bit greater, but idiotic drivers are idiotic drivers, and the same people would probably get themselves into trouble in an old base FWD impreza L.
Neek is online now  
Old 02-19-2003, 08:04 AM   #19
BoyRacer
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 31411
Join Date: Jan 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Upton Ma
Vehicle:
2001 RSTi, Cayman S
BRP Subaru, Black Cayman

Default

Hey, and your from Boston... Surprise surprise...

Cars don't get tickets, people get tickets.

MGB


Quote:
Originally posted by Jude DeMeis
Unless you live somewhere rural you're not going to be able to "open up" the STi very often unless you are prepared to say bye-bye drivers licence. STi Subarus are so fast that they can be driven at double the speed limit. I have an STi conversion and I've already been charged with driving to endanger (got off in court) and numerous tickets. The car is just too fast to really unleash on public roads unless you live in the middle of nowhere.
BoyRacer is offline  
Old 02-19-2003, 08:30 AM   #20
skuttledude
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 738
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Southern Ohio USA
Vehicle:
2008 Lexus IS-F
Ducati Monster 800

Default Re: track record....

Quote:
Originally posted by 944 turbo guy
I am a driving instructor @ Summit Point Raceway. I have been driving on the track since 1994, I auto crossed from 1987 (GTI) to 1992. I have raced SCCA and NASA with a Porsche 944 turbo.
2400 lbs, 400+ hp, 14.5 inch brakes. I hace competed in indoor karting and attended shifter kart schools in Florida.

This past fall I won my first Pro race with the Panoz series and have tested with 2 Speedvision World Challenge teams.

When I was 17 my parents went to Germany, and I decided I would stay home and joyride my moms 911 !! After nearly totalling it on a 270 degree turn, I realized I wasnt as good a driver as I had thought,...this isnt a priveledge most have, so my opinion is that most people cant really push a 300hp anything to anywhere near its limits without alot of luck !! Its not something that just "comes to you",...you have to be put in situations over and over to know how to react. I look at my video from my last race and can point out mistake after mistake, and thats on a track I have driven over and over( Road Atlanta).

Last but not least, I am not bragging, I am just trying to paint a picture,..I have a looooooong way to go before I would call myself a Proracer,..

I watch student after student come to the track with cars modded to the sky, and cant drive,..and everyone will try to scare the instructor, we tend to get the last word.!!

Spend some money on driving schools and learn some car control and loose the ego that only works from light to light.........

JUST MY .02 CENT WORTH,....

944 TURBO GUY

I totally and completely agree. Good imput. I've been looking for a good car control class that is somewhat close to where I live (south east Ohio). I definately need to brush up on some driving/racing skills. I'll check out Summit Point this summer.

Truly,



Davis
Davis
skuttledude is offline  
Old 02-19-2003, 11:55 AM   #21
Jude DeMeis
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 491
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Boston, Ma, USA
Vehicle:
1995 Legacy race car
Pan Am Blue

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by BoyRacer
Hey, and your from Boston... Surprise surprise...

Cars don't get tickets, people get tickets.
Whatever you say. Drive an STi even half-way to its limits around town and you're going to get tickets. The car really is too fast to enjoy on the public roads around Boston. Only grooves when it's flying. It has so much grip and control - low speeds are pretty much a bore. Of course if stop-light rocket launches to 50mph do it for you then it may be exciting.

The only truly satisfying times I've had driving the STi are out in the middle of nowhere (upstate NY comes to mind) when you can really open it up. And on the track.
Jude DeMeis is offline  
Old 02-19-2003, 12:29 PM   #22
Oldnslow
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4572
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Seattle,Washington,USA
Vehicle:
2015 WRX
WRB

Default

While I agree with much of Paul's and 944 turbo guys comments, and I have had a lot of experience on the track and in road racing, I think we have to be realistic here. Many, many people, who can afford it, buy high performance sports cars and enjoy them even though they may not be racers, go to the track, be able to heel and toe, or have even heard the term opposite lock, let alone know what it means. It's all a matter of judgment and common sense. Quite frankly, even with all my road racing/track experience, I don't carry much of that over to public highways. I think the biggest advantage is that I am more focussed and concentrate better. I'm just careful, make sure I slow down before entering a corner on any public road so there is no chance I will "lose it" in the corner. I might speed a little on a rural road straightaway when nobody is on the road, but that's about it. I save my high speed cornering for the track. It really has little to do with having a fast car, of which there are many. Rather, it is being responsible behind the wheel and recognizing that, unlike a race track, you only get one side of the raod and their are people coming in the opposite direction!
Oldnslow is offline  
Old 02-19-2003, 01:11 PM   #23
BoyRacer
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 31411
Join Date: Jan 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Upton Ma
Vehicle:
2001 RSTi, Cayman S
BRP Subaru, Black Cayman

Default Now I understand...

I think I understand our issue now. You believe that public roads are for having fun, and I think they are for transportation. I also believe that NO car (even my Dads caprice classic) should be driven ANYWHERE NEAR it's limits on public roads, it's just not safe (and you'll end up with tickets ).

I'm not saying that I'm an angle on the street, but I've never gotten more than a quick warning from a cop either.

Anyone can drive the STi safely on the street. Many people won't and it's wrong weather they can "handle the power" or not. Just like Oldnslow said.

MGB


Quote:
Originally posted by Jude DeMeis


Whatever you say. Drive an STi even half-way to its limits around town and you're going to get tickets.

The only truly satisfying times I've had driving the STi are out in the middle of nowhere (upstate NY comes to mind) when you can really open it up. And on the track.
BoyRacer is offline  
Old 02-19-2003, 02:01 PM   #24
Prairie Dawg
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 16598
Join Date: Mar 2002
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: the Katy prairie
Vehicle:
'09 Civic Si
Redline Orange

Default

If I could handle my 370HP '69 Z-28 with all its torque, true posi, and lack of stopping or turning ability, I can surely handle an AWD, 300 HP, marvel-of-modern-engineering automobile like the Sti.
Prairie Dawg is offline  
Old 02-19-2003, 02:17 PM   #25
MZM
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 514
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego
Vehicle:
07 Legacy Spec B
Impreza 93 STI

Default Drive sensibly

Quote:
The WRX has too much power for some people, as evidenced by the number of wreck posts.
I need some real evidence of this common "wreck" statement. Part of my job is to find 2002/3 EJ20t engines at recycle yards. There just aren't that many available and the price is still high compared to other brands. This index is at least as good as "wreck posts".



Quote:
I think I understand our issue now. You believe that public roads are for having fun, and I think they are for transportation. I also believe that NO car (even my Dads caprice classic) should be driven ANYWHERE NEAR it's limits on public roads, it's just not safe (and you'll end up with tickets ).

I'm not saying that I'm an angle on the street, but I've never gotten more than a quick warning from a cop either.

Anyone can drive the STi safely on the street. Many people won't and it's wrong weather they can "handle the power" or not. Just like Oldnslow said.

MGB
Precisely correct.



Quote:
It's all a matter of judgment and common sense. ................. I think the biggest advantage is that I am more focussed and concentrate better. I'm just careful, make sure I slow down before entering a corner on any public road so there is no chance I will "lose it" in the corner.
As I commute daily, the thought often comes to me that everyone ought to attend a mandatory driving school as part of getting a license. And make sure that school teaches not to use makeup, read, make cell calls, eat, etc while they are responsible for their life and other lives when behind a wheel. Throw in weight shift, braking technique, turn-in, shifting technique, etc.

Buy the STi if it fits your budget and style, then follow the street rules. It will be very controllable.

MM
MZM is offline  
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
too much power from battery? too big fuse? Lesesneje Car Audio, Video & Security 9 10-08-2005 12:44 AM
how to lower spec-c suspension without messing too much with the handling? Capt Crunch Brakes, Steering & Suspension 7 12-05-2004 03:18 PM
WRX subwoofer drawing too much power? cyyeo430 Bay Area Impreza Club Forum -- BAIC 19 08-04-2002 02:19 AM
Too much power jaycastaldo Normally Aspirated with bolt-on Forced Induction Powertrain 3 06-08-2002 11:02 PM
Too much power- need an upgraded clutch! Dan_E Transmission (AT/MT) & Driveline 5 03-26-2002 05:32 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.