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Old 02-18-2003, 10:48 AM   #1
BOY
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Default Woohoo! Turbo installed but need help

OK, now that I'm over the giggle factor I'm definitely not able to see what this thing can really do... yet. Please provide help to any of the comments below:

First RHB5 off of a Loyale which I though would max out at 4psi but I did notice the boost gauge hitting the high side of 5psi (closer to 6) at 50% throttle.

Second, I cannot go over 52% throttle without bad things happening (sputtering/bucking).

Third, Once we got the car running (at idle, mind you) I'm getting nothing off the front O2 sensor (or at least my A/F gauge isn't reading a damn thing). I think we may have killed/damaged the sensor during install but I'm not sure. The car almost feels like its in limp mode when I really get into boost but if I back off the throttle it pulls like a SOB.

Forth, my EGTs are awesome! Lower than pre-install, and based on the old sniffer (my nose), I'm running huge amounts of fuel. My duty cycle is right around 80% (just a tick below acutally) max and my MAF is not maxing out.

Last, I haven't messed with my plugs yet and I was running a HUGE gap (MSD low resistance wires, NGK 6 plugs, 0.060" gap). Now N/A the car would only run well at 0.055" or bigger due to the low resistance of the wires and I do have a set of NGK 7's ready to go in. Is there a "formula" to reduce gap based on boost?

So, what I'm getting at is what is causing my bucking? Plug gap? O2 sensor? Fuel?

Oh, I'm running up to 50%+ fuel (Air Flow meter adjustment) and -4deg timing on a Greddy E-Manage
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Old 02-18-2003, 12:21 PM   #2
wcbjr
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I had the same bucking at anything over half throttle. Took me over a month to get rid of it.

What is did was:
Replaced spark plugs
Gap the plugs to about .030"
Got new plugs wires, Magnecor
Leaned out my fuel a ton

I think what happened in my case was the plugs were gapped too big, along with too much fuel, causing an excessively rich condition and fouling the them. Then the plug wires couldn't transfer the current and fouled them up too.

I would regap a tad bit smaller and lean out some fuel.
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Old 02-18-2003, 12:57 PM   #3
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That's exactly what I was thinking but I was just so happy to get the car running (and the coolant leaks to stop) that I figured I'd mess with it later. Now, this morning I changed my fuel settings from 35% to 50% at 1/2 throttle (from 2400 on up) and the car was worse, that got me thinking its definitely the plug gap.

Now, with F/I and plug gaps my understanding is colder plugs need a different gap than normal... is this right (and if so more or less gap)? Also, are most people running ~0.030" on the stock plugs?

Thanks
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Old 02-18-2003, 01:01 PM   #4
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Good to hear Bill. I tried calling you back last night but didn't get an answer. You retarded timing by 4 degrees? Thats quite a bit, though I doubt it has anything to do with your hesitation isssue.

Try pulling some of your fuel, I have found this to be the main cause of hesitation with the Link. If your EGT's are OK, then pull fuel until they start to rise, but do it by little increments. I would say you need a clamp for your map, but you obvisouly don't have one.

Glad to hear that she's running though!


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Old 02-18-2003, 01:23 PM   #5
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My EGTs are actually 100-200 degrees F colder than when I was N/A (even with all the timing retard). I am concerned about the O2 sensor and A/F gauge not giving me any info. I may swap out O2 sensors with the old one (that I just replaced last week) and see if if makes a difference... if so then I'll take the new sensor back (Autozone warantees rule) if not then I'll calk it up to gremlins.
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Old 02-18-2003, 03:32 PM   #6
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Got some quick pics snapped on my lunch break....

Click Here
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Old 02-18-2003, 03:44 PM   #7
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If you went from 35% to 50% and found it worse, you might want to try to lean out your mixture depending on what injectors you're running. I also think -4 degrees might be too much for low boost. Part of your symptom could be related to ignition timing since that was what happened to me, and since I'm running the older '94 ECU that probably has more conservative timing, I found that I didn't need to retard my timing at all for my 7psi of boost. It's amazing how even 1-2 degrees of retard can have so much effect on engine driveability.

Edit: just saw your pics. I recommend you go to an Ace Hardware store and pick up one of their 90deg plastic elbows to eliminate that kink for the BOV return hose. Looks like it is crimped from the pics and wouldn't seem as effective.
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Old 02-18-2003, 03:48 PM   #8
Graham
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Bill, looks good man! I'm a litte worried about that piece of clear tubing running from your intake, but I'm sure its temporary.

I see you wrapped the pipes already, looks good, keeping that heat down. Is there any left over from what I gave you?

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Old 02-18-2003, 03:54 PM   #9
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So check this out. After I posted the pics I noticed something "strange"...



This might explain some of my symptoms If you don't see what it is, its a pin-hole in the weld. All things considered, if this is my only problem so far I'm counting my blessings.
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Old 02-18-2003, 03:59 PM   #10
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Graham, there is TONS of wrap left (and a ton of snap strap). The clear tubing is all I could find that fit the BOV elbow, at least in a pinch. We actually had it routed very nicely and heated it up so it was unkinked... then we had a coolant leak and had to remove the IC (which is quite the endeavor using the WRX IC) and the tube re-kinked. Oh well, I've found a couple of other hoses that should work very well and be much more pliable.
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Old 02-18-2003, 04:05 PM   #11
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So was that pin hole all the way through and causing the boost/vaccum leak?
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Old 02-18-2003, 04:18 PM   #12
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Looks that way. I already called the shop and we're going to fix it later this afternoon. I do think that this may have caused my 6psi "spike" too. That being said, if the weather holds I may swap plugs, take out the additional fuel that I put in this morning and bump the timing back up a bit. This is the part that I was dreading, tuning off a dyno.
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Old 02-18-2003, 04:39 PM   #13
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Cool Bill, i'll get it from you soon if your done with it.

Interesting, I wonder if that little hole is causing this problem. Oh, and I would happy with the 6 psi, your engine can take it no problem, and its quite a bit more power. Road tuning isn't too bad, you get used to it. It is frustrating when you can't figure out a problem though.

Let us know.


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Old 02-18-2003, 04:40 PM   #14
Graham
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Oh, and throw a "T" on your car type at the left....


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Old 02-19-2003, 07:33 AM   #15
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Woohoooo!!

welcome to RS-T troubles... always a pinhole away... lol

looks good...
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Old 02-19-2003, 10:24 AM   #16
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Default Yeah Baby!

Well, got the pinhole fixed (and cleaned up that BOV hose a bit) and that made a huge difference in driveability. The car was still stumbling at ~50% throttle but no I could tell that it was definitely ignition or spark plugs... so I tweaked. I dropped in my new NGK 7's gapped to 0.045" (0.015" tighter than before), I changed my timin retard to -2 everywhere but overrev conditions, and I pulled ~10% fuel. The old plugs were definitely getting fouled, I could smell the fuel soon as I pulled the wires off! Well, my test drive to Autozone to get my CEL codes read scared the living crap out of me. My clutch is now virtually useless in 4th and 5th gear except for cruising. My front O2 sensor (the brand new one) is shot (hence why I'm getting nothing form my A/F gauge) so I'll be taking that back to Autozone this weekend. Once I get my A/F gauge (and O2 sensor) working again I can start to pull even more fuel.
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Old 02-19-2003, 12:08 PM   #17
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Over fueling can always be the case, especially with larger injectors. I'm pulling 50% in the lower revs and 30% in the higher revs with my 360cc injectors but that isn't even enough. I should be pulling 75% or so in the lower rpms but I'm using a piggyback so 50% is the max I can go.

Road Tuning isn't so bad if you know what to listen for and have the right gauges. Just make sure to keep the radio off and don't turn on any accessories(fans, radar, etc).
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Old 02-19-2003, 12:46 PM   #18
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Since my A/F gauge is temporarily SNAFU'ed I've had my eyes glued to my EGT gauge which is reading 100-200 deg F cooler than N/A... I'm also "feeling" the car and any stumble, hesitation, etc is an instant off throttle until I can determine what it might have been and then try to duplicate. I've got a few dead spots in the RPM range, and I think I hvae to focus on my on/off boost transitional fueling a bit but I'd say the car is 80-90% there. I think I'll get to that O2 sensor this weekend (if not sooner) and that should smooth out my idle, and hopefully get rid of some of my dead spots... plus once my A/F gauge is reading again I can start really diagnosing my fuel map.
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