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Old 02-18-2003, 12:12 PM   #1
DistantTea
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Default Latest from SCCA Solo II classing... they might stick us in A Stock

My wife emailed one of the classification board dudes a bit back. They didn't have time to officially class the evo or the STi yet, but it kind of looks like they will be swaying towards A stock instead of B stock.

Damn corvettes.... corvettes EVERYWHERE!

-Tom
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Old 02-18-2003, 01:31 PM   #2
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AStock makes more sense than BStock. Similar power/weight ratio than other cars in the class (C4 Vette, BMW M3/5, BoxsterS, etc.)
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Old 02-18-2003, 01:50 PM   #3
97itr153
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Default A-Stock will be tough

The STI has nothing to fear from the C-4 Vette or the EVO in A-stock. I think the main competition in A-stock will come from the Boxster-S and the 315bhp M-Coupe.

If the STI and EVO go to A-stock, here are my predictions for which cars will have a shot at winning. Cars that are not on my list are not likely contenders for the Nationals title. In order of ability:

1. Boxster-S (tie)
1. M-Coupe 315bhp (tie)

3. STI (tie)
3. M3 E46 (tie)

5. Corvette C4 (tie)
5. EVO (tie)
5. NSX (tie)

If however, the STI and EVO end up in B-stock, here is how I see things

1. STI

2. M-Coupe 240bhp (tie)
2. S2000 (tie)
2. EVO (tie)

5. Boxster (tie)
5. 350Z (tie)

Either way, in 2003, AS and BS will be a lot more interesting than they were last year.

Last edited by 97itr153; 02-18-2003 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 02-18-2003, 04:33 PM   #4
bmrboy325is
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IRC, the S54 powered Bimmers are Super-stock, not A-stock...

Checking...

yep, the M5 and all S54 powered bimmers are SS, as is the Boxter S.

(according to WDCR region's SCCA rules site, go here ->
http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Lists/2002/stockc.html
)

A stock sounds right, the cars we'd compete against are-

A Stock
Acura NSX
BMW M coupe
BMW Roadster (240 hp versions)
Corvette C4
Corvette ZR-4
DeTomaso Mangusta
DeTomaso Pantera
Porsche 993 Chasis (non turbo)
Saleen Mustang
Shelby Cobra
Subra Turbo

if the STi gets stuck in B-stock, the competition includes
Audi TT (225hp variant)
BMW M3 (E30)
BMW M3 (E36)
BMW Z3 (6 cyl)
Camaro SS (96+)
Corvette (1st-3rd gen)
Prowler
Ferarri 308
Ferarri 328
Honda S2000
Jag XKE
Lotus Elan RWD
Lotus Esprit
Lotus Europa (Twin cam, Renault)
Maserati Biturbo
Mazda RX-7 Turbo
Merc SLK
Morgan Plus8
Nissan 300ZX turbo (90+)
Pontiac Firebird WS6
Porsche-
356
911 (non-turbo, pre 993)
914/6
928
944 (16 valve and turbo)
968
boxter
TVR 8 cyl, v6
Toyata MR-2 Turbo


I think based on that list right there, the Sti definately belongs in A-stock.

-Scott
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Old 02-18-2003, 04:37 PM   #5
bmrboy325is
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Default

I'd say depending on the numbers, there's a ghost of a chance the STi could be placed itself in SS

that would have us competing against-

BMW - All S54 powered (M3, Mcoup, Mroadster)
BMW M5
Corvette C5
Dodge Viper (R/t, GTs, Sr-10)
Mustang Cobra SVT ('03) (WHat the hell is that doing in SS?)
Esprit turbo
RX-7 turbo
SLK 32 AMG
Porsche 911 (996 chassis)
911 Turbo (993 chassis and below)
Boxter S

Whats frightening is the numbers we're hearing on the STI just might stick it in with those cars...

300/300 and 0-60 in the mid-4's with WRX's quality of handling might just land the STi with the big boys.

-Scott
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Old 02-18-2003, 06:48 PM   #6
DistantTea
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Default Moutons is off.

Check out the last three fast tracks for updated classifications

They've moved the M5 to AS along with a slew of SS cars. Moutons just hasn't been updated yet. Check out the last three months of PDFs for the newest classifications.

-Tom
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Old 02-18-2003, 07:40 PM   #7
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I'm no SCCA Solo II expert - but from what I see in Japan as far as classifications go in that area of racing, the STi and Evo are basically in the fastest classifications (for stock cars) here. And rightfully so - there isn't many cars that touch a well-driven STi/Evo.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
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Old 02-18-2003, 10:40 PM   #8
DistantTea
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Default Amen

I know you speak the truth, but I find it really hard to believe that the STi and Evo are the creme of the crop in japan... a country that gave us the RX7, all the Z cars and withheld the precious Skyline GTR classes the STi and Evo at the top with those monsters of power and handling?

I'm not putting down the STi... I'm #1 with my order in just like alot of people around here... but I am a realist. I'm worried about A stock because of the vettes... for autocross purposes the old vettes are absolute monsters of speed with years and years of hardy tweaking to get every tenth of a second out of their times. The Z06s and C5s in SS would eat the STi alive. And the S2000s in B stock dominate the series.

I'm going to do my best and run the STi against whatever they put me against... but I saw alot from the Solo II nationals and I don't think the STi has what it takes to take on A stock or SS.

Now put the STi on a gravel road... different story... or maybe make the autocross course sopping wet. I could have my advantages yet.

I'm going to post a poll soon...
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Old 02-18-2003, 11:15 PM   #9
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Well, seriously enough we've got the 2700lb/290hp stock GC8 STi's and Evo RS. The GT-R is too heavy in stock trim to compete with those - it's simply not competitive until after modification, plus it's nearly double the price just to buy. The RX-7 was heavier than the STi and EVO strippers, and offered far less torque plus only RWD vs AWD. Back when the 240hp STi and Evo came out, they did a track test with a stock and a modified TT RX-7 vs. Stock STi and Evo - the evo and sti walked all over both RX-7's. And the Z car simply hasn't been competitive for a while - 300ZX tt's were grand tourers, not sports cars. The S2000 mounts some good competition, but I haven't seen it on top in times vs. Evo's and STi's. Silvia turbo's do good, but they aren't available in the States.

But, like I said, I'm not expert on Solo II, so take what I say with a grain of salt. It's sometimes hard to believe (for myself) that most of my driving life has been in Japan...

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
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Old 02-19-2003, 02:48 AM   #10
bmrboy325is
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Default

LoL
"The following cars are added to the STX Exclusion List:
Subaru WRX STi
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo 8"

aww, not STX?

BTW, I checked the newsletter and found no mention of any BMW's getting re-classed (save the Cooper-S getting dropped to GS)

I've seen plenty of C5's compete. Of course, we can't really talk until we actually see the STi's performance in person, but at least in theory it should be able to keep up with a stock C5, boasting similar power to weight and all wheel drive.

the z06 is a completely different story of course. IMHO they're classed a bit low, they should be in with the 996 turbo's and Ferrari's (kudo's the chevy for the z06)

-Scott
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Old 02-19-2003, 03:02 AM   #11
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I'm thinking an STI with a great driver and great tires will keep up fine with most anything listed here. The advantage will be the AWD system more than the HP.
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Old 02-19-2003, 02:00 PM   #12
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There are few things that I would like to underline here. First, E46 M3 or M-coupe are not in the AS. There is a proposal for the move and they expect to get some feedback about that. If it happens, it will be 2004. Well that will probably go along with the STi, since I don't believe it will make a cut for this year eligibility.

Then, it is very hard to say anything about the possible classing of those two cars right now, without any serious testing in the autoX world. It is funny to me to see that people are making statement on which cars are going to be faster and which one will be slower, without even driving the car. Some of them without driving even similar cars to those that where put on the list. But, still there is that keyboard racing that doesn't seem to stop ever. Instead of waiting to see how things are going to be, we are better put that STi ahead of the C4 Vette, but after the Boxter-S!! Sorry, but this is just plain silly to me!


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Old 02-19-2003, 10:29 PM   #13
DistantTea
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Default Yeah but

We're sizing up opponents here. Not just keyboard racing. The Evo's lack of a front LSD is its downfall... its a glorified (but rather nice) WRX now. The STi really has alot going for it in AutoX just from the stats. If its got the juice in the really slow tight demon corners that make every car push wide then we might have a real winner.

You have to speculate... haven't you ever seen Fight Club? Size up the opponents. I'm waiting to fight Ghandi.

-Tom
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Old 03-28-2003, 01:55 AM   #14
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Default EVO going to AS

The latest word from evolutionm.net is that the EVO has been classed as A Stock for 2003:

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthr...threadid=17623

It is interesting to see the different ideas of how good the Evo is between the Evo forum and the SCCA forum. The former assumes that the Evo will kill anything in BS, while the latter thinks BS is good and the STi is much better . The few reports I've heard of autocrossing the Evo VIII have been pretty positive.

This still doesn't answer the question of the STi, but if the Evo is AS, it seems unlikely the STi will be less. I'm just hoping we won't be in SS.
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Old 03-28-2003, 06:45 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by bmrboy325is
I've seen plenty of C5's compete. Of course, we can't really talk until we actually see the STi's performance in person, but at least in theory it should be able to keep up with a stock C5, boasting similar power to weight and all wheel drive.

??.. isn't stock C5 having similar weight to STi (assuming STi's
weight is similar to EVO's)... and having 50-60 more hp/tq?
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Old 03-28-2003, 02:09 PM   #16
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Default Not true!

Quote:
Originally posted by MrAWD


There are few things that I would like to underline here. First, E46 M3 or M-coupe are not in the AS. There is a proposal for the move and they expect to get some feedback about that. If it happens, it will be 2004.

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Then how do you explain three M3s, one M-Roadster, and one Boxster-S, all competing in A-Stock at the San Diego National Tour event on March 15/16, 2003?
http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo2/na...o/results.html
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Old 03-28-2003, 03:06 PM   #17
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Default Re: Not true!

Quote:
Originally posted by 97itr153
Then how do you explain three M3s, one M-Roadster, and one Boxster-S, all competing in A-Stock at the San Diego National Tour event on March 15/16, 2003?
http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo2/na...o/results.html
We do have to remember the age of this thread -- MrAWD may have posted this before the 2003 rule changes. 97itr153 is correct. The 2003 rules have the BMW M3 Coupe/Roadster (01+) and E46 M3 moved to AS. The Boxster S is still in AS.
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Old 03-29-2003, 08:46 PM   #18
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Take a look at the bottom of the 2nd page of this thread...A Stock it is for the Evo. I assume it will be the same for the STi.

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthr...4&pagenumber=2
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Old 03-29-2003, 09:13 PM   #19
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It is nw in the FasTrack for the Evo.

http://www.scca.org/news/tech/fastrack/03-05.pdf

Bottom of page 20.
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Old 03-29-2003, 10:15 PM   #20
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I thought people were crazy when they suggested SS for the STi, but I think the STi should be in a faster class than the Evo, so SS doesn't seem completely impossible now. I still hope it's not going to happen, there's no way it could keep up with a Z06.

Any ideas where it will go in SP? It looks like not even the Evo was classed there yet?
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Old 03-30-2003, 12:20 PM   #21
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Classing for the STI in street prepared is leaning towards BSP or ESP.

If the EVO 8 gets put in ESP , then it looks like BSP for STI.
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Old 04-01-2003, 09:48 AM   #22
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I am not really worried about the C5's or the zo6. In my area, I am consistantly faster in my standard WRX then the vettes here. Granted, it maybe just that I am a better driver. I know at nationals that would be a different story. I like the stiffer competition. Why not compete against the fastest and the badest? The V8 guys hate losing to 4bangers. And I love beating V8s. That is why I compete in ESP now. All mustangs and cameros.
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