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Old 02-18-2003, 02:53 PM   #1
Lord
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Default FWD, RWD, AWD. not the same feeling

first of all....
i owned these 3 cars....
(FWD)2002 sentra specv
(AWD)2003 impreza wrx
(RWD)1995 240sx

i used to launch my specv at 1,5krpm....the frontwheels have span like crazy before i was able to have a good traction, usually when i got into 2nd gear...which sucks....but once it had traction, the car pulls like crazy...and i really feel my car pull my body to the back

then i had my wrx....i did 5k start, the 1st gear gave me crazy, too much fun, but after that its kinda dispointed.. you feel nothing but you still know the car is accelerating fast.
so, i did a race between specv and wrx to make sure if my wrx is
faster or what, how come i feel only a little bit exciting.
yes, my wrx killed spev 5 cars by going to 80mph from start, but from 15mph to 70mph...seems same...damn

and then i got a used 240sx...little 150hp...i cant believe that feel my heart pumping every time i full gas it.. and this car is no where near fast as specv and wrx.

even my friends who have been sitting in these cars approve the same opinions.

how come ?
is there any physic explanation ? or its just me
when it comes to accelerating feelings
RWD-- FWD-- then AWD ?
i cant imagine a 500hp RWD car

sorry for my poor french english
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Old 02-18-2003, 03:10 PM   #2
gongzero
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i think it might partly have to do with a pushing vs. pulling sensation.

RWD --> you sit in front of the driven wheels, so it's more of a pushing sensation.

FWD --> you sit behind the driven wheels, so it's more of a pulling sensation.

AWD --> no clue about this. maybe 'cos it's half-and-half... more stable?

but think about when you were a kid on the swing... someone pushing you from behind was WAY more fun than someone pulling you forward and then letting you go backwards.

armchair physics brought to you by angelo. maybe someone else can give you a better answer.
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Old 02-18-2003, 03:21 PM   #3
Pre-diddy
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Accelleration depends mostly on traction. A fwd will have little traction in a straight, hard launch compared to rwd or awd. Then rwd has the second most followed by awd. Also remember traction also depends on suspension setup, tire compound and size, vehicle weight, etc.
Rember that your sentra makes a lot of torque compared to its hp rating, nissans are known for that. Also the v-spec has a very short 1st gear, and i hear that it only goes to like 25mph because of its size. This means that especially in 1st gear, your are having trouble getting a hard launch. Drag radials would make a huge difference in your launch, i bet.
As for awd, you brobably cant spin your tires at all without killing your tranny/clutch. However, remember that awd absorbs alot of power, so that your whp is lower than any 2wd car with similar engine hp rating. So it should feel like it is not launching/accelerating as hard as 227 hp might suggest.
Finally, for rwd, they usually have good traction and the 240sx is a good, well balenced car. Also, likei said before nissans generally hav epretty good tourque ratings and i bet your peak tourque is lower on the rev range than for example, a WRX. So because your peak torque comes early, and a hard rwd launch, plus good chassis/suspension setup, combined with less drivetrain loss will all combine to give you a strong launch acceleration and feeling.
As for 500hp rwd, it can get very scary, very fast.
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Old 02-18-2003, 03:25 PM   #4
BJamerican
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Nah, I'm going to have to disagree with the first theory. The seats in the car are applying a force on your body from behind during acceleration, regardless of FWD, RWD, or AWD. Maybe it's just psychological?

Edit: Sounds like Pre-Diddy summed it up very well.
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Old 02-18-2003, 03:27 PM   #5
KC
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Default

Have to do this just for the archives. (I know English is not your primary language, so this is not a flame on you)

Grap on my parnets tired purple monkey dishwasher phrases seen above:
- have span like crazy
- i really feel my car pull my body to the back
- the 1st gear gave me crazy
- after that its kinda dispointed (What, the WRX has feelings?)
- how come i feel only a little bit exciting?

You could have typed it all in French. That would be OK too. Everyone here can read French... heck, 75% of OT is from Canadia. They all speak french, right?

--kC
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Old 02-18-2003, 03:28 PM   #6
TimStevens
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It's probably the throttle response of a turbo vs. a NA car.

AWD, RWD, and FWD cars do feel drastically different while driving, but not while accelerating in a straight line (other than wheelspin and whatnot).
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Old 02-18-2003, 03:33 PM   #7
gongzero
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Quote:
Originally posted by BJamerican
Nah, I'm going to have to disagree with the first theory. The seats in the car are applying a force on your body from behind during acceleration, regardless of FWD, RWD, or AWD. Maybe it's just psychological?

Edit: Sounds like Pre-Diddy summed it up very well.
yeah, i was referring to the psychological aspect.
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Old 02-18-2003, 03:49 PM   #8
Lord
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maybe its just me.
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Old 02-18-2003, 03:53 PM   #9
GooseMan
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Bonjour!!!!
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Old 02-18-2003, 04:01 PM   #10
Wethefukowee
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You're saying the SpecV would be neck and neck with the WRX from a roll? I find that hard to believe.
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Old 02-18-2003, 04:05 PM   #11
Lord
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you dont need to believe...
its the truth, i tested it.
15mph to 70mph...after that wrx gets the ring

not to mention specv had burn wheels
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Old 02-18-2003, 04:36 PM   #12
Wethefukowee
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Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Lord
you dont need to believe...
its the truth, i tested it.
15mph to 70mph...after that wrx gets the ring

not to mention specv had burn wheels
I don't????? Yes I do!

Why 15 to 70? Do those speeds just happen to coincide with the best power for the SpecV? What about a normal street start of 5 mph?

I thought you said the SpecV pulls harder? Neck and neck isn't pulling harder.
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Old 02-18-2003, 04:41 PM   #13
Lord
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my mistake
i said, i feel specv pulls harder, but it doesnt mean it goes faster...but 240sx gave me the strongest feeling of acceleration, but in fact, it is slow car ever(i drove) somehting like 8s 0-60 and 15+s in quater miles

wrx certainly has a decent start....but once you are on the road...stock vs stock....there is not much different between spec and wrx... make sure you compared both 0-30, 30-60, 0-60, 60-90 times....
on the paper, wrx beats specv 1 sec in 0-30...and it has still the 1 sec of difference in 1/4mile
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Old 02-18-2003, 04:46 PM   #14
Wethefukowee
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lord
my mistake
i said, i feel specv pulls harder, but it doesnt mean it goes faster...but 240sx gave me the strongest feeling of acceleration, but in fact, it is slow car ever(i drove) somehting like 8s 0-60 and 15+s in quater miles
My old 2.5RS felt pretty fast too but it wasn't. It had more low end usable torque than the WRX but it's not nearly as fast.

People driving the WRX at first don't think it's as fast as it is because they're not used to keeping the revs up and turbo lag. After you become accustomed to it, it feels faster.

Go drive a Mustang GT and then a WRX. You'll swear the Mustang is faster but on paper they're almost identical.
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Old 02-18-2003, 04:50 PM   #15
Lord
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thats exactly what i am trying to find out..
is that turbo ? or AWD erase the feeling ?
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Old 02-18-2003, 04:53 PM   #16
cRayZee
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a rwd car(w/ some good torque) will squat when you launch, or probably when you punch it, and it'll feel like it's faster...
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Old 02-18-2003, 05:08 PM   #17
Achilles38WRX
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i don't have a wrx

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what you could be feeling is the difference in gear ratios as well. less powerful motors use shorter ratios in the transmissions. it will feel faster because you will pull hard for a shorter time, and have to shift sooner.

just my opinion
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Old 02-18-2003, 05:16 PM   #18
Cyberdemon
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You have good taste in cars

As far as a Spec V keeping up with a WRX, my friends Spec V with basic bolt ons (Intake and Exhaust) was able to keep up with a stock WRX that he raced from a roll at around 30 I believe. After he did some more mods (headers, better tires), he was able to pull on another stock WRX from a roll. Out of the hole though he got smoked.

Not bad for a 17k car though. I <3 Low End Torque
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Old 02-18-2003, 05:25 PM   #19
Chin
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Default It's about the support

From my experience, it's the seats that make the difference. I remember my old '89 VW Fox GL, that thing felt a lot faster than it really was. When compared to my '89 Jetta GLi, it felt as quick or quicker than the GLi, but it wasn't. The difference? The GLi had Recaro seats vs. cheap seats in the Fox. I could reference several different comparisons including a '72 240Z that my friend had that felt like a freakin' rocket ship, but was no quicker than my RS. While I obviously can't attach scientific research to this, I have noticed the effect of different seat types for as long as I have driven. Just my $0.02, anyway.

Christian
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Old 02-18-2003, 05:38 PM   #20
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when i had sparcos in my car, it *felt* like i was poking along all the time...which is what led me to get rid of them...

"hey, i can throw my car through this 90 corner with one hand!"
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Old 02-22-2003, 03:42 PM   #21
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I think its the low end torque your feeling. The wrxs power comes in after 3k, but before that there isnt much. The 240sx isnt a fast car, but the ka24de has some good low end torque. Your probably feeling the difference between a constant powerband of an na engine vs a turbo.
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