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Old 02-26-2003, 09:37 PM   #1
WagonRX
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Default Attn: 1wrx2nv

So where's the results?

Russell
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Old 02-27-2003, 03:30 AM   #2
1WRX2NV
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Well, with my new Vishnu top mount IC...and PE1818 turbo,
I got 246.1 whp. 91 octane

How about you again?

-freddie

Last edited by 1WRX2NV; 03-06-2003 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 02-27-2003, 04:52 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1WRX2NV
Well, with my mew Vishnu top mount IC...and PE1818 turbo,
I got 246.1 whp. 91 octane

How about you again?

-freddie
At Vishnu? Do you have the chart to look at?
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Old 02-27-2003, 10:11 PM   #4
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yup!

-freddie
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Old 02-27-2003, 11:07 PM   #5
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246whp!! That's a little low for that setup don't you think?
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Old 02-28-2003, 01:28 AM   #6
1WRX2NV
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YEP!!




-freddie
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Old 02-28-2003, 01:35 AM   #7
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I want to hear all your guys thoughts......


Russell.....please post numbers and Mods

-freddie
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Old 02-28-2003, 02:10 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1WRX2NV
I want to hear all your guys thoughts......


Russell.....please post numbers and Mods

-freddie
241 whp

Mods:
Vishnu Stage 2
Samco I/C hoses
ProTorque Torque Converter
T/C lock-up trick (+20whp)

I thought you would have dyno'd higher but I don't know much about the PE Turbos. What boost were you running?

Russell
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Old 02-28-2003, 03:32 AM   #9
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youre running the vf30 and the stock intercooler right russell?

The PE series turbos produce way more power than the vf series turbos. the PE1818 is basically the same size as the vf30 and vf34 except PE series has bigger internals and it is dual ball bearing. Not only that freddie has a bigger top mount.

Russell, you are also only running 15psi of boost right? Freddie is at 17.5-18psi. Doesnt it seem kinda strange how freddies car running more boost and a bigger turbo with bigger intercooler only be 5 hp more than you and still less than vishnu's strongest stage 2. I think something is going on here.
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Old 02-28-2003, 04:13 AM   #10
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Dang Freddie I would have thought you would be at about 250 whp with the set up. How much you boosting?

I have the vishnu stage 2 Vf30 samco ic hoses and k and n filter, ecutek and im doing 239 whp

vega
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Old 02-28-2003, 01:57 PM   #11
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I dunno guys.....

but it is getting to be VERY interesting!!

I payed $2,000 for Vishnu TMIC + ECUTEK + 1hr tuning (thought it was included).....plus $1,300 for the BETTER turbo........
and get 6 more HP than those without these mods.

Don't get me wrong guys, I am happy for your guys numbers....but when comparing the mods and #'s.......

Shiv said his dyno was "RECALIBRATED" since my last run with 259.8 whp.....and also said it was due to a "bad batch of gas in California"....

I guess we got hit bad, here in the BAY AREA, with this "bad gas".

Now...it is alot smoother, and seems to be A LITTLE faster....(pe1818).....but I am sure you guys would be about the same....since there is only a 6 hp difference. hahahahaha

Anyway, I'll let you guys talk now.....I have a feeling I am in a LOOSING situation now.....

-freddie

Last edited by 1WRX2NV; 02-28-2003 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 02-28-2003, 02:17 PM   #12
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All cars work differently though I seen a people posting how they only get 230 whp from the vs2, and then others who will post saying they got 252 whp from the vs2, there is a thread right now in factory forced forum I believe, in which people are talking about what numbders they got from the vs2...

Im woundering if i up grade my ic will i only be at about 245 as well, hmmmm dont know if its worth putting 600 down for a bigger tmic then splitter 100, hopefully I can use stock bov, then of course have to get my car re-tunned being I have the ecutec another 200.00... damn thats puts me around 900.00....

Anyways what u boosting at freddie.
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Old 02-28-2003, 02:23 PM   #13
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First off...I am not trying to BASH on anyone, so I don't want any pissy replies or PHONE calls...

OK, here is my theory......

I started out @ 259.8 whp......(basic Stage 2 w/ UNICHIP + EMI).

Now, I put on the Larger TMIC+ silicone hoses + PE1818 turbo + ECUTEK....and I gain "lets say"....20hp. That would put me to 279.8 whp...right??

Now, the Dyno is "RECALIBRATED".....there is a loss of 13.7 hp...
( I get this # because I am NOW getting 246.1 whp).....

Shouldn't my numbers be: 279.8 - 13.7 = 266.1

Still MORE than BEFORE the dyno was "RECALIBRATED".....because of the EXTRA MODS.....

OK now lets say...we take my 259.8 (stage 2 w/ unichip+EMI)...put it on the "RECALIBRATED" dyno.... -13.7 = 245.8...... Now let add my mods....Larger TMIC + silicone hoses + PE1818 turbo + ECUTEK @ "lets say" 20hp...

that would be 245.8 + 20.0 = 265.8..... get it?
or even if I only gained 10hp with all those EXTRA mods...that would be 255.8....that s about a 10hp diffence than what I have now!!

Maybe I am all wet...what do you think??


-freddie

Last edited by 1WRX2NV; 02-28-2003 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 02-28-2003, 02:33 PM   #14
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Quote:
[i]
Anyways what u boosting at freddie. [/b]
17.5 - 18 psi
and I know each car is different....but when I was 1 of the 1st to have the Stage 2...they were impressed on how stong my car was and how high the number were. So, it's not like I have a car that produces low numbers.


-freddie

Last edited by 1WRX2NV; 02-28-2003 at 07:12 PM.
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Old 02-28-2003, 02:54 PM   #15
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The answer is really simple and if I had a dollar for each time I explained it, I wouldn't need to tune cars

With CA 91 gas, we are OCTANE LIMITED. That means, no matter what modifications we have, we will only be able to make a certain amount without running into detonation. You cannot play the addition game with respect to additional mods. Things like intercoolers, turbos, etc,. will have a much more profound change on output consistency, torque curve shape, etc,. than absolute peak hp numbers which will be bottlenecked at a certain point.

In the case of a WRX, the MOST we've been able to safely make on pump gas, on our dyno, is 250-260wheel hp. In fact, anything over 250 wheel hp is considered a resounding success. On 93 octane, we usually see an increase of about 10-15 wheel hp at Stage 2-like levels. On 100+ octane, the sky is pretty much the limit as long as there is enough airflow supplied by the induction system (turbo, ic, etc,.)

Even our Stage 3 car, on pump gas, has only been tested to make 260 wheel hp. On 100 octane race gas, however, it makes 368 wheel hp since we are able to run appropriate boost, fuel and ignition values. Values that simply aren't safe when running 91 octane.

Cheers,
shiv
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Old 02-28-2003, 03:11 PM   #16
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OK, so I had 259.8 on your dyno....now I put on a TMIC, hoses, BETTER tubo, and ECTUEK.....now I have 246.1

When you add mods...it is not common to LOOSE...you gain something.

You guys tuned JT2s car on WED. and he has stage 2 ..... he has 252.8....and WITH OUT UNDERDRIVE PULLY INSTALL!!

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...highlight=shiv

Now I was tuned on Tue. night...with stage 2+ AND a BETTER TURBO and I get 246.1......I din't get what you guys are saying....
thats a 6 hp difference with less

This looks like it would NOT be worth getting stage 2+ for $1000.00 or more!!


-freddie

Last edited by 1WRX2NV; 02-28-2003 at 06:59 PM.
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Old 02-28-2003, 03:51 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1WRX2NV

This looks like it would NOT be worth getting stage 2+ for $1000.00 or more!!
-freddie
Things like a larger intercooler and turbo are really safety add ins. The larger intercooler cools charge air temps (this should allow you to run slightly more boost though) but in itself isn't a power adder. The larger turbo should also spool more air at a lower velocity....hence making it's life longer....why you had more power before I don't understand, was it also tuned by Vishnu?

The larger Turbo and intercooler should both be adding lag. Do you have your turbo charts both before and after?
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Old 02-28-2003, 03:57 PM   #18
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It is kind of low from what I've been seeing what others have output with some of the same mods and sometimes lower boost. If you look @ Dan's (Godspeed) dyno plots on the 1818 , with 92 octane and conservative tuning, the numbers are alot higher. I don't think the octane of the gas was such a major factor. I understand that dynos are all different, but what's going on? I'm curious and want to know.

From ClubWRX:

First one is with stock injectors, uppipe, downpipe, exhaust Unichip. Nothing else running 15.5 PSI.


This second chart he upgraded the fuel system and added a Blitz IC running 19 PSI. The blue line is the stock WRX chart.
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Old 02-28-2003, 04:09 PM   #19
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Freddie,

Why didn't you tell us that you were running a PE1818 and not the old VF30/34 that you used to run? Don't you think that would have helped the cause? I spent 3 hours trying to get what I believed to be a VF30/34 to behave like a VF30/34.

shiv

PS. Dynapack's read higher than our dyno.

Last edited by Vishnu Performance; 02-28-2003 at 04:17 PM.
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Old 02-28-2003, 04:54 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vishnu Performance
I spent 3 hours trying to get what I believed to be a VF30/34 to behave like a VF30/34.
lol you should give the man a free retune


And just to add into this discussion i saw over at atp yesterday a wrx w/greddy front mount, pe1818, turboback, and greddy emanage untuned, put down 274hp. (i know shivs dino reads lower)
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Old 02-28-2003, 04:55 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vishnu Performance
Freddie,

Why didn't you tell us that you were running a PE1818 and not the old VF30/34 that you used to run? Don't you think that would have helped the cause? I spent 3 hours trying to get what I believed to be a VF30/34 to behave like a VF30/34.

shiv

PS. Dynapack's read higher than our dyno.
Some people say that certain companies push their products. I'm not sure if that is why he wouldn't tell you but it might be a reason. BTW, Why would you WANT what you thought was a VF30/34? You should be able to see how much air/ fuel is going in and adjust it acoordingly. It shouldn't matter if you know what he has or not. You should be able to tune someones car without looking at the engine.
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Old 02-28-2003, 05:31 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by ScoobieSnacks


Some people say that certain companies push their products. I'm not sure if that is why he wouldn't tell you but it might be a reason. BTW, Why would you WANT what you thought was a VF30/34? You should be able to see how much air/ fuel is going in and adjust it acoordingly. It shouldn't matter if you know what he has or not. You should be able to tune someones car without looking at the engine.
That is incorrect. One of the most important things about tuning is looking for patterns. All cars with similar set ups work similarly. And if they, for some reason don't, it's like walking in a minefield. That is, one does not know what to expect and has to play ultra-convervative in all areas. For example, in Freddy's car, I spent two hours trying to achieve the torquer curve values (esp. in the midrange) that I expect to see with VF30/34 cars. Also, thinking that it was a VF30/34, I ran the same boost curve that I, after testing countless VF30/34 cars, know to work the best. With a different turbo, trying to acheive values that I historically knew to be safe and sound, would be futile.

Regards,
shiv
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Old 02-28-2003, 06:47 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vishnu Performance
Freddie,

Why didn't you tell us that you were running a PE1818 and not the old VF30/34 that you used to run? Don't you think that would have helped the cause? I spent 3 hours trying to get what I believed to be a VF30/34 to behave like a VF30/34.

shiv

PS. Dynapack's read higher than our dyno.
An equally important question is.....why didn't you tell me that your dyno was "recalibrated"?

That is why I held up my fingers saying 270. You should have said..."oh by the way...we had some work done on the dyno so now it reads more accurate but lower numbers.

So, not knowing this fact....I saw lower numbers and felt that something was wrong. In my mind, thinking..."this has been a waste of my money".....again not knowing this fact. But then I see guys with LESS parts on their car pulling higher numbers...same thing came to mind.

And if you saw something wrong on the dyno...why didn't you let me know? The only thing you asked was "what octane do you have"?

To a customer, who has spent a lot of money with your company, And who advertized or "showed off" your product, so everyone would know about Stage 2....honestly... I was disappointed!! I even said so when I saw the numbers. And I feel that with the turbo I have on...and the propper tuning....I should have better results. With a fast, safe wrx.

Maybe, many people don't know about turbos, the way you explained to me when you called this afternoon, but a lot of people are thinking that I should see slightly higher numbers.....not saying this is ABSOLUTELY correct....but thats what people are thinking....and telling ME!!

I am sorry if you are tired of explaining this to people all the time, because they don't know, but hey...they are the ones spending thousands of $$, so repeated explanations are needed and are part of the business.

I don't want you thinking I am a BAD guy, but Shiv, people are already saying things, and I have many times defended your name....to people I have never even met. When they post...you usually say something to them....so you know what I say is true.

Now Shiv, I am not saying the tuning was bad....I told you that it is A LOT SMOOTHER, and feels slightly better. I am NOT trying to tell everyone, NOT to buy from you. If this was the case I wouldn't have spent extra money myself, with your company. Hearing other peoples stories and seeing the results I got....put up a BIG "?" in my head.

Now when people get dyno tuning from you, at least the don't have the expectation of a higher number than the last time you tuned their car.....like in my case.

If there is something we can do, for the tuning with this turbo, now that you know I had and have a PE1818, ....let me know.

Thanks

-freddie
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Old 02-28-2003, 06:58 PM   #24
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Shiv,

When was your dyno supposedly "recalibrated"?
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Old 02-28-2003, 07:05 PM   #25
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Freddy,

I did tell you that the dyno has been recalibrated since you ran that 260 wheel hp. I told you several times on several different days. I even told you not to expect to break 260 wheel hp when you came in for a reflash.

If you, or anyone else, has any questions, see:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...aseline+vishnu

It explains the differences in testing proceedures between now and several months ago when we first got the dyno. It also explains how a stock WRX which dyno'd a long time ago at 176 wheel hp came back since the dyno calibration and made 165 wheel hp.

The difference isn't actually due to a re-calibration of the dyno software. It had to do with standardizing the testing proceedure (intake temp sensor placement, run duration, cooldown period, etc,.) These standards, like all standards, are set over time based upon trying different testing methods. The net result of the standardization has reduced dyno numbers by a few %. I am well aware that people like seeing big numbers regardless on how slow or fast their car runs. But them there is just the facts.

Cheers,
Shiv

Last edited by Vishnu Performance; 02-28-2003 at 07:18 PM.
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