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Old 03-30-2001, 07:49 AM   #1
gtguy
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Talking To anyone on the fence about DMS (read before you PM me)

Somehow, my enthusiasm seems to have made me the answer man for DMS Golds. That's cool, but I thought I'd just put this up to answer some questions like "How much to my door," "Why do you like them so much," and stuff like that.

Hope it helps.

<<I like my Golds because they're the best of all worlds. They have the comfort of a stock spring/strut combo, yet the handling and adjustability parameters of coilovers. They are built to withstand the odd trip to Hell (Subie Gal had her Legacy hit by an SUV so hard, it knocked the engine out of the car or something crazy like that....her DMS were fine, and she put them on her RS), with first-rate build quality.

They're inverted which adds strength, and much of their ride comfort comes from the double progressive springs that DMS uses. The small bump compliance that is often absent with coilovers and their linear springs, DMS has.

You can dial in any ride quality that you want, literally from softer than stock, to almost racetrack flat. There are 30 clicks of adjustment, and the difference in a single click can be felt.

With the DMS, my Legacy GT wagon could handle with a Lexus IS, and I had snow tires on. They're that good.

I don't know that there is anyone that doesn't like their DMS. There are some people who had installation-based issues that I believe were ironed out. But I went from AGX/Eibach to Tein HAs to my DMS Golds, and the DMS is at another level of handling combined with ride comfort.

The only problem with them is that they handle so well, I wind up putting my car places so quickly, that people (in traffic) are surprised. "Hey, where did that wagon come from?"

We had a Midwest meet up here in Chicago, and everybody who drove my car loved it. Some are getting a set, others are saving their pennies.

You're going to spend, if you stick with your existing strut tops, which the Golds are designed to work with, about $2K delivered to your door from Australia. You might want to check with Dave to see if there's someone that actually stocks them, which will cut the shipping costs.

Yes, it's a lot of money for a suspension, but you'll have a car that can do anything.

Raise it in the winter, lower it in the summer. Make it soft for squiring Mom around, or hard for auto-x, or somewhere in the middle for rally-x. Whatever.

The ride, compared to stock, can be anything you want it to be. You can dial up a stock ride quality if you want. Hell, you can make it softer than stock if you want. The spring rates aren't stiff like the Japanese coilovers, so the lower damping settings are very available to you, without making the car oversprung.

I have my car dropped 1.25" in the front, and 1.5" in the rear, and the ride quality is fantastic, because of the variable-rate springs. I think it might work even better a bit higher, so I'll give that a try. But most people don't know that I have anything going on with the car until we go flying around a corner and they say "Hey...what just happened?" My wife hated the Teins. She loves the DMS.

The P1 setup is a lot cheaper than the DMS, but the DMS is better than the P1. The P1 is really nice, to be sure. But I thought that my ride quality was better, yet my car was flatter and handled better.

With the P1s and Dunlop 9000s, my car is scary, with lightning-fast turn in. The DMS adjusts damping and rebound, and ride height of course.

The only slight downside to DMS (aside from for some, the cost) is that because they're inverted, you have to reach underneath the car to make damping changes. That's no biggie in the front, because you can just crank the wheel to easily get at the adjusters. The backs are a little trickier.

Once the strut tops are on, installation is as simple as taking the old ones out, and bolting the new ones in, attaching the brake lines and voila! If you want to fool with rear camber, either get the set of DMS washers that change camber, or get adjustable camber plates.

It's the first product I have had that I've grown more fond of the longer I have it.>>

Are DMS the be-all and end-all of the coilover world? For me, yes. As with anything, your mileage may vary. Just trying to answer what seem to be the most frequently PMed questions.

Kevin
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Old 03-30-2001, 07:52 AM   #2
DLC
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Hmm, i'm gonna have to add this to what you already gave me for Legacy Central.
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Old 03-30-2001, 09:59 AM   #3
N8S_WRX
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you ROCK

-nathan
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Old 03-30-2001, 01:17 PM   #4
gtguy
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I might rock, but my car doesn't.

Kevin
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Old 03-30-2001, 02:21 PM   #5
RONIN
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That's it!!!
I'm sold... Now to just save all my gas money and lunch money and ALL my pennies and no more oil changes and no more eating out and no more movie's and no more nuthin'! 'Til I come up with $2000.00... I WILL HAVE DMS, OR I WILL EVICT MY MONKEY!!! (desperate times call for desperate measures)

RONIN

Edit: I think I need to find myself a life...

[This message has been edited by RONIN (edited March 30, 2001).]
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Old 03-30-2001, 03:18 PM   #6
DLC
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Monkeys don't go for jack on eBay:

Trunk Monkey!

Oh well!

I might have a good deal on some HA's with those noise PBMs coming up, wish me luck!
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Old 03-30-2001, 06:02 PM   #7
WRSport
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Ohh Great. Now I need to update my wish list.
Seriously though, thanks for the DMS overview, Ive been waiting for more info like this. I'm sold. Now wheres that $2000 i just have lying around here?
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Old 03-30-2001, 06:19 PM   #8
Matey
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wow that sounds really good.

save save save.

what does damping do? i hear alot about it, yet i dont know what it is or does.
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Old 03-30-2001, 07:04 PM   #9
Joe Lee
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and a red 94 Miata!

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GTGuy, I read this with great interest, as well as your original "DMS Impressions" post(s) and continue to appreciate the clear, concise, useful info you provide.

If I had $2K, you'd be the reason I'd be buying DMS!

So thanks a whole hell of a lot for getting me all jealous!!!
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Old 03-30-2001, 09:50 PM   #10
Basshead
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<FONT size="5"><FONT COLOR="Blue">CUSCO!!!</FONT c></FONT s>



[This message has been edited by Basshead (edited March 30, 2001).]
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Old 03-30-2001, 09:51 PM   #11
gtguy
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Thanks guys. I do it all because I dig the iClub so much, both as a hangout and a place to acquire usable information about products. I simply think about what I'd like to know about something, and post accordingly. I'm glad it helps.

Kevin
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Old 03-30-2001, 10:58 PM   #12
markus
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I don't suppose that DMS makes a suspension for the newer Legacy's do they?
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Old 03-30-2001, 11:23 PM   #13
scotto
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Question

gtguy,
thanks very much for the detailed post. I was just thinking I wanted to get more info about the DMS Golds today!

I have one question, I have a new WRX wagon which i like the ride of, but would like to have more of a track-able feel when I want it to. The question is: what is the total wheel travel with the DMS vs. stock?

I know with some coilover suspensions suspension travel is sacrificed to avoid problems at lower ride height settings.. (at least this is what the manufacturers of certain coilover systems claim.)

Uh, one more: What is your opinion of the eibach/AGX setup?

Thanks,
Scott
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Old 03-31-2001, 05:29 AM   #14
froggert
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kevin - im not so sure that having to get under the car to adjust dampening is a downside for a sedan. ive been fiddling with the tein ha's for a week and a half now, and pulling the back seat is getting annoying.

roger
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Old 03-31-2001, 01:09 PM   #15
gtguy
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I'm not sure what the total travel is. It obviously depends to a certain extent on the damping that you have dialled in. Stiffer setting=less travel. Dave Clark might have more info in that regard.

I liked the AGX/Eibach combo a lot. That was the first thing that I tried, and might still have if the Eibachs hadn't slammed my ride. The Legacy Pro-Kit springs were wayyy out of spec.

I moved through the various settings on the AGXs once they were broken in, and at the hardest settings, well, it was pretty hard, let's just say that. It was uncomfortable though, which I suspect was because the big drop from the Eibachs had the AGXs outside of their ideal height range.

Roger, I forgot that the GT sedans don't have a fold-down rear seat. For me, it was as easy as flipping the back seats down. PM me about how you're doing, and if I can offer any setup suggestions.

Kevin
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Old 03-31-2001, 07:39 PM   #16
cfwdfw
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Hey GTGuy,

thanks for all the info ... the drop on your legacy ... the result of installing the DMS ? and or ???
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Old 03-31-2001, 08:08 PM   #17
gtguy
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Right now, I'm 1 1/4" down in front, and 1 1/2" in the rear. Obviously, you can set the height wherever you want. I'll probably return to the ride height I had with the Teins, of (from the ground) 26 1/4" front, and 25.5 in the rear, vs. the current 26.0" in the front, and 25.0" in the rear.

Kevin
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Old 04-01-2001, 06:10 PM   #18
Gary (gg)
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I think Gary Sheenan's WRX is going to use a set of Ground Control struts with aluminum body. They are about $2000 with Eibach race springs. I don't have them on but would look to a set of custom built Konis and Eibach race springs for $2000. By the way, if the Teins or DMS Golds are rebuildable, who can do that? Are the Teins and DMS double adjustable? Eric Kreimelmeyer and Noah Brandon has proven the Teins in ProSolos, anyone going to run DMS's at a Nat Tour or ProSolo this year?
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Old 04-01-2001, 08:33 PM   #19
david2z4
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I love my DMS Gold too. I have grown to like them more after I have played with the dampening adjustments. They are truly a great suspension and worth the price. I will be happy with these and will not need to upgrade in the future, so in the long run it is a cost savings.
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Old 04-02-2001, 12:20 AM   #20
dcoty
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Thank you, i was juggling the golds around in my head with some others, DMS itis!
preciate it
Dan
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Old 04-02-2001, 06:11 AM   #21
Richard A.
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First off I want to say my DMS 50's are absolutely fantastic! I switched from Leda's with 300# front springs and 250# rears to the DMS 50's with 350# fronts and 300# rears and the car is much more comfortable and beautifully balanced. If you were thinking about Leda's save the extra $$ and buy these struts!

Gary, I will be at the Nationals two Pro-Solo's, two National Tours and probably at the St.Louis Divisional at the end of May unless I can find a closer major event that weekend. The Teins are not double adj. but the DMS 50's are! My front bump/rebound setings got installed at the recommended Gymkana setings but the rear ended up 1 higher on rebound and 5 lower (10 off full hard) on bump. It's so good I haven't touched it! I've only run 3 events on them so far but I'm cleaning up against people I was runing about dead even with last year in the Pro- Solo's.

Last I heard Tein's and DMS both were not rebuildable in the U.S. but Dave Clark at DMS said that he expected to be able to do that before anyone need it. Seems that Pro Rally people usually go a whole season or more on these struts without needing to rebuild.
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Old 04-02-2001, 06:26 AM   #22
Fuzz541
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Matey,

(I PM'd you, but I thought anyone else with the same question might find this site useful.)

Check this link for great information. It's by Mike Shields of SPD in California. He's a big-time Impreza and tuning expert, or at least seems to be from the amount of information on his site. He has advised Sport Compact Car with a couple of project Imprezas.
http://www.spdusa.com/serv02.htm

Good luck.
Fuzz
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Old 04-02-2001, 06:41 AM   #23
omahasubaru
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I have a question for both you GtGuy and Basshead.

Obviously the DMS would be better for off-road/rally-x driving than the CUSCO correct? I mean isn't all of CUSCO's suspensions designed strictly for tarmac use?

DMS is a good set-up designed for off-road applications, yet sounds as if it can be tuned in to a great track/tarmac set-up and can then still be changed for street daily driving ride comfort.

My question to you GtGuy is... How hard is it to adjustment the height? I see the ground controls (as advertised) use one hand while others use two.

I'm curious as to the hardness of adjustment.

It sounds as if DMS is the way to go for the daily driver.. weekend Auto-X/Rally-X person living in the midwest with large amounts of snow in the winter and possible uneven crappy roads.

Thanks for your answers in advance,

Jon
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Old 04-02-2001, 08:06 AM   #24
gtguy
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Hey omaha. Although the DMS Gold can be taken off road (did it...cool!), the 50mm setup is better for serious off roading.

The DMS is also great if the area that you live in has crappy roads, like Chicago. I think that if I were still running the Teins with the 17" P1s, my kidneys would be up around my ears by now.

Height adjustment, as with any other coilover setup, is a piece of cake in the front. Crank the wheels, and you'll be able to get at the collars. I rig up a template that allows me to get the height exactly matched on both sides. Loosen the bottom collar, use the spanner to turn the seat, and voila.

At the rear, you have to take the wheels off. This is true of any setup, since you can't get your hands in there to get at everything. Ground Control uses a collar that locks with an allen screw, which is why they can boast a one-handed adjustment.

But really, unless you go for some sort of crazy lowering, you're rarely changing the height. I lower from winter to summer, and will return to stock ride height at the first big snow we get up here.

Kevin
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Old 04-02-2001, 10:28 PM   #25
uniballer
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I am sold on the DMS, I would prefer the 50mm's and can get ahold of the jack to make that happen.

My concern is that after mounting a set 17x7.5 +50em wheels all the way around with some sticky rubber, what chance do I have of rubbing the crap out of something?

Should I look at getting 17x7 +53em wheels instead (even if the particular model of wheel I am considering is significantly heavier)?

I have absolutely no clue about what adjustable camber plates/washers are and whether or not they would help in this situation. How much additional cost are the plates?

Please educate me. I really want to enhance the handling and braking of the car before I look into squeezing more ponies from it.

For the record, the car in questions is an 02 WRX Sedan.

Thank you very much.

Jason
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