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Old 03-05-2003, 05:29 PM   #1
joefocker20
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Default Lightweight Pulley Install

Is it necessary to use a breaker bar to remove the crank pulley bolt? Also, DoI have to go buy a Torque wrench for this install or is it one of those "tight enough" type of deals?
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Old 03-05-2003, 05:43 PM   #2
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yes you will need a breaker bar of some sort to break that thing off i needed a really long peice of pipe as well as a breaker bar!

and yes you will need a torque wrench to tourque it down wouldnt do it anyother way

Brian
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Old 03-05-2003, 09:55 PM   #3
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I used a breaker bar to take mine off...

I've talked to several subaru mechanics, they all said "make sure it feels as tight as when you took it off, we dn't use a torque wrench..".... I just tightened mine down really tight
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Old 03-05-2003, 11:27 PM   #4
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Hmm, I bought a torque wrench today, took my belts off, went to take the pulley off, and guess what? I couldnt get it off. I had my wife put it in every gear while holding the brakes, and I was using a 18" breaker bar (1/2"). The belts are off of my car now and I cant figure out how to get it off..
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Old 03-05-2003, 11:36 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by SubyBean
yes you will need a breaker bar of some sort to break that thing off i needed a really long peice of pipe as well as a breaker bar!

and yes you will need a torque wrench to tourque it down wouldnt do it anyother way

Brian
You mean I needed a pipe to take it off...

PS... you need threadlock too...
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Old 03-05-2003, 11:42 PM   #6
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Im about to just rest the breaker bar somewhere and turn it over, I dont have pipe and this is pissing me off..
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Old 03-05-2003, 11:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
Iím about to just rest the breaker bar somewhere and turn it over, I donít have pipe and this is pissing me off..
Itís so easy this way, its not even funny. A little scary if you havenít done it before, but once you do it you'll wonder why you didn't try it earlier.
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Old 03-05-2003, 11:58 PM   #8
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My breakers only about 18" long, so where do I place it so it dosent spin around like mad?
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Old 03-06-2003, 12:07 AM   #9
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Just recently I helped a friend change his out, but it was on the older style. We used a 18" inch bar and there was a perfect spot on the left side of the body that had a notch in it, we just put a towel over the end of the bar and it worked like a charm. Again this was in an older style so i doubt its there on the new body style, as are engine bays are a little bigger. If that donít work find a piece of pipe that you can slip over the bar and brace it some where else on the body, maybe even the ground if thereís enough room.
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Old 03-06-2003, 12:11 AM   #10
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I dont have any pipe, and Im not putting the belts on until the new pulleys on, I better developa strategy here. If you bump the starter, should it be under or on top of something on the left side?
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Old 03-06-2003, 10:23 AM   #11
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IF the handle of the breaker bar is facing to the passenger side, then it should be UNDER something (pulling up as engine turns). If the breaker bar handle is facing towards the driver side, it should be on top of something, pushing down as the engine turns.

How many miles on the 02? I have over 50k on the 00RS.. so thats why I think it was so stuck.
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Old 03-06-2003, 11:36 AM   #12
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23000
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Old 03-06-2003, 01:29 PM   #13
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Well, I tried taking the fan out, and the power steering hose and radiator hose wee in the way.. So I just put everything back together, and I'm going to find the largest pipe I can possibly find and try that. I may try breaking it lose with the belts on too, that may keep the pulley still..
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Old 03-06-2003, 02:30 PM   #14
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If only one could get the clutch to NOT slip any...
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Old 03-06-2003, 02:34 PM   #15
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Default Why, oh why...

Do people insist on removing the stock pulley/harmonic damper from street cars and putting on one that doesn't actually damp harmonics? On a race engine that gets rebuilt frequently, that might be ok, but on a street car, you might as well saw the con rods halfway through while you're at it. This is a really, REALLY stupid way to get minimal power gain.
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Old 03-06-2003, 02:45 PM   #16
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um.. you do know that the horizontal engine is not externally balanced... right? Please refrain from making rash statements in this and all forums (outside of OT) .. because we like to keep things on the nice side of the tracks here. You basically just called me and a lot of other people stupid.
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Old 03-06-2003, 02:48 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by watcher in the sky
um.. you do know that the horizontal engine is not externally balanced... right? Please refrain from making rash statements in this and all forums (outside of OT) .. because we like to keep things on the nice side of the tracks here. You basically just called me and a lot of other people stupid.
I'm stupid... and I don't even have a non-harmonic doohickamajiggy...
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Old 03-06-2003, 02:51 PM   #18
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me neither hehe
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Old 03-06-2003, 02:52 PM   #19
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Glad to be st00pified with ya danzborin!
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Old 03-06-2003, 03:39 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by watcher in the sky
um.. you do know that the horizontal engine is not externally balanced... right? Please refrain from making rash statements in this and all forums (outside of OT) .. because we like to keep things on the nice side of the tracks here. You basically just called me and a lot of other people stupid.
There is a difference between a harmonic balancer and a damper. Every engine, even if internally balanced, vibrates. For some engines, all Subaru EJ series included, a damper is needed for long term reliability to reduce certain kinds of vibrations. You don't have to take my word for it; if you investigate, this is fairly common knowledge, and Subaru will be happy to tell you if you can't find the info elsewhere. Vishnu offers a different pulley replacement for people smart enough not to replace the crank pulley on their street cars.

Rash statements are in the eye of the beholder. To you, my words appeared ill considered, because you misunderstood what I said. To me, yours seem so, because misreading "balancer" for "damper" is rather foolish. One thing is certain: righteous forum nazis are no fun for anyone, themselves excluded.

By the way, were the engine not internally balanced, you'd be a moron to replace the pulley even on a race engine, as you might well blow the whole shebang apart violently in one event, which is why virtually every sanctioning body known to man requires that engines be balanced by whatever means necessary. That I suggest it is acceptable to run without the OE pulley on a race engine is evidence enough that I know the engine is balanced.
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Old 03-06-2003, 04:02 PM   #21
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Yeah, it is so crazy how you hear about people trashing engines everyday because the replaced the crank pulley...

What is the difference in the Vishnu pulley? If it is lighter, then it serves the same purpose as ANY other lightened pulley out there, to gain better throttle response, and better gas mileage due to less rotating weight on the crank.

Ok, by damper, you mean to keep vibrations down... right? How does the stock one do so? is it that cheap rubber placed in the middle of the pulley? Or is something else. Look, I wasnt trying to be rude, and I know i wasnt, but no one has been able to prove that changing the crank pulley on the subaru is NOT benefical, and that it will mess something up... please, for yours, mine, and everyone elses benefit, give some info on Subarus failing to operate or problems linked to changing the crank pulley.. DIRECTLY involved with harmonic dampening. Because in my long time on this board and ownership of this car, I have yet to hear of a case.
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Old 03-06-2003, 04:30 PM   #22
trhurler
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Quote:
Originally posted by watcher in the sky
Yeah, it is so crazy how you hear about people trashing engines everyday because the replaced the crank pulley...

What is the difference in the Vishnu pulley?

Ok, by damper, you mean to keep vibrations down... right? How does the stock one do so?
Long term reliability problems do not show up right away. The car hasn't even been here for two full years yet, and very few people swapped crank pulleys on any prior Subaru EJ engine. There seems to be this kiddie tuner mentality of "show me cars that failed because of X," when in fact usually the pattern is not obvious unless you have a decade or more of history to look at and can examine service records of many thousands of cars. They then say "well, I haven't seen or heard of problems, so this must be ok to do, and it gave me an extra 3hp on the dyno!" Fine, but those of us who are smart aren't doing that. Here's an exercise for you: how many engine failures has Subaru provided warranty replacements for if the crank pulley had been swapped?

The Vishnu pulley is not a crank pulley. It is an accessory pulley. They also have a crank pulley, but they point out that not everyone will want it.

The stock pulley damps vibrations by having a certain mass on the crankshaft - the effect is primarily if not entirely inertial. It is doubtful that you can achieve effective damping without that mass. You could redesign the engine not to need it, theoretically, but the resulting engine would probably be heavier and more expensive.

Then again, why should I worry about this? Almost everyone reading this has violated federal and state laws regarding emissions control devices(hint: it is ALWAYS illegal to remove a working cat from a street car, even if the car has more than one, and even if you replace that cat with another one that works just as well,) replaced perfectly reliable engine management with third party "solutions" that have less total runtime than Subaru spends just TESTING their parts, put intakes on that foul air sensors one after another(and then bitched about it as though it was someone else's fault but their own,) and so on. Obviously they don't care.

People want to believe that tuning cars is easy and can be done by following a premade recipe. It usually isn't so, if you want the result not to suck. Life is not Gran Turismo 3.
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Old 03-06-2003, 05:44 PM   #23
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You are talking about a WRX...

Yes plenty of people have done this on older ej series motors...

I have a friend w/ one on a 91 legacy w/ 150,000+ miles... underdriven at that... That's some longterm proof... most cars aren't even on the road that long, even with the stock pulley...
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Old 03-06-2003, 06:33 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by DanzBorin
You are talking about a WRX...

Yes plenty of people have done this on older ej series motors...

I have a friend w/ one on a 91 legacy w/ 150,000+ miles... underdriven at that... That's some longterm proof... most cars aren't even on the road that long, even with the stock pulley...
hehe ya and no need to mention names on that one we all know who it is hehe
brian
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Old 03-06-2003, 06:45 PM   #25
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Question what....

you have a point trhurler... but jeez .

Yes the stock crank pulley has damping mass (rubber), and yes it was designed into the engine system with a certain mass, BUT the number of people running lightweight (undamped) crank pullies is quite high - on subarus and others makes (that aren't as balanced, naturally, as the EJ)

And, although this is not scientific by any means, I have yet to hear of anyone who has had an engine failure due to any kind of lightweight aftermarket parts (pullies, or flywheel). I have had a lightweight set on my GT for over 20kmi (I know, that is NOT very long), but many on this board having sets for 3-4 years+ and 60, 70, 80, 90k +mi.

But ya know, you are on a board filled with people dedicated to CHANGING their cars to be faster, louder, lower, meaner, etc... (some succeed, some do not ) Of coarse many of the these mod's will lower the life of the car in question - - try making a couple hundred 1/4 mi runs in any car, modified or not, and it won't last as long as one driven to church on sunday. so yeah, you're right, we don't care.

I would say that a lightweight pulley is the least of most peoples worries on this board.

my car (dohc 2.5l) will blow a head gasket well before any damage is done by the pulleys - and my driving habits aren't to long term freindly either - I am my cars worst enemy! haha

not trying to be an ass, or say that you are wrong... but I don't think the implications of an un-damped pulley are as grave as you make them out to be...

to each his own I guess. at least my car is well out of warranty, and I can afford to fix it if it goes boom

anyway, Joefocker20 - I had to use a 4 foot bar to get mine off. It is nice, improved throttle response and maybe gave me some more umph in the upper rpms and upper gears too... even if only 3hp

-Chad
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