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Old 03-06-2003, 03:44 PM   #1
STEALTH-WRX
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Default brake upgrade help

so now my engine is fully built and i am getting my sti 6 speed in april. what do i lack... brakes of course. i honestly dont want to buy an all out big brake upgrade. for a year i drove on some dba long life gold drilled and slotted rotors and my car stops like crap. i want something that will not fade and will stop better. i have seen the subaru 4 pot upgrade, the perrin/wilwood upgrade, and the some other cheesy options. what would you suggest. your help is greaty appreciated.
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Last edited by STEALTH-WRX; 03-06-2003 at 04:22 PM.
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Old 03-06-2003, 04:51 PM   #2
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i have rotora big brake kit i really like it. i went to track events no fade and good stopping power.





mark
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Old 03-06-2003, 04:51 PM   #3
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Maybe the STi brembo package, some stoptechs, rotoras (Good deal going on right now in group buys), the wilwoods, perhaps the ion peformance kit?

I think you should go for large(r) kit stealth because your motor is extremely built up, but what are you going to be doing with the car?

~Evan
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Old 03-06-2003, 06:31 PM   #4
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STEALTH-WRX - go with a kit that will maximize the smallest wheel you'll ever use.

ie: if you're going w/ 17" being the smallest, get something that'll maximize the use of space under neath.

Just make sure since you want to increase braking performance as well as overall handling, get something of equal or less weight as your original brakes.
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Old 03-06-2003, 06:49 PM   #5
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Rotora BBK is on mine, I'm hard on my brakes all the time, hasn't faded yet. Awesome stopping power, next meet in So Cal your going to, I'll let you try them out.
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Old 03-07-2003, 08:34 PM   #6
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Consider either the STi (non-Brembo) 4/2pots under 16s.

The SToptech or Rotora kit under 17s.

My advice, exclude the Perrin/Wilwood kits from your choices.

ss
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Old 03-07-2003, 08:37 PM   #7
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Stealth - what kind of budget are you trying to adhere to?

Adam
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Old 03-07-2003, 08:51 PM   #8
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well for the front i want to spend around $600-800 with braided lines. i would want at least 4 piston. for the back i want to spend around $500-700.
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Old 03-07-2003, 09:12 PM   #9
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I just ordered the Wilwood 6 piston big brake kit. I have done alot of research and after talking to two friends with race cars both with Wilwood brakes I went with them.

The kit is the least expensive of all th ebig kits and after seeing the kit at a trade show I was sold.

Owen
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Old 03-07-2003, 09:59 PM   #10
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isn't their problems with dust seals. i just want a better braking kit that i never have to service.
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Old 03-08-2003, 09:22 AM   #11
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subysouth, why would you remove the perrin wilwood kit from your picks?

-- Steve
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Old 03-08-2003, 10:33 AM   #12
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If you change your mind and opt for a brake kit, I agree that you should optimize for the smallest wheels you'll use. I'd probably get nothing larger than ScoobySport/Rallyperformance's 16" kit, which is quite nice-looking and performs very well, I hear. It's an AP/Brembo kit.

There is of course the STi setup, too. I don't know though, I'm starting to lean toward upgrading both the front and rear brakes, if a full-out kit is to be done. I'm aware of the obvious front brake bias, but a lot of people here argue the practicality of brake kits, and not really needing them unless you do a lot of racing where the smaller calipers/rotor diameter cause brake fluid boil...

To me it seems that some folks don't see huge gains with front brake upgrades, like the STi 4-pots, but then again I think that those were designed to work WITH the STi 2-pot rear calipers, and regardless of the fact that the fronts do most of the stopping, maybe that's the real deciding factor. Maybe what makes it worthwhile is when you do a full upgrade, pulling no punches. Makes sense to me.


Otherwise I think a decent set of pads will do you just fine. And I'm not surprised that the cross-drilled rotors were a disappointment. I'm not in to those. Porterfield makes good brake pads, as do about a million other vendors. Exeter Subaru in NH sells Porterfield, though: www.subaruwrxparts.com
I have the R4-S model on my car at all four corners, on otherwise stock brakes (excepting new OEM-sized Brembo rotors up front, but that doesn't count). They're quite grabby compared to stock, I like them a lot. The only funky thing I discovered is that the rattle clips don't fit well, at least on mine. *shrug* Could just be an odd batch?

Basically they fit very loosely, so even when brand new the clips rattle like mad. So I just took them off.

-S2-
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Old 03-08-2003, 03:52 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by SLKWrx
subysouth, why would you remove the perrin wilwood kit from your picks?

-- Steve
This is just MO, but I dont like the Perrin/Wilwood kits. The front 4pot Wilwood caliper was never designed or intended by Wilwood for the front of a car the weight of an Impreza. Wilwood uses that 4pot as the REAR caliper(which does about 25% of the work of the fronts) in there 6/4pot setup. It is flexy, maybe more so that the stock 2pot sliding caliper depending on who you ask. It also lacks dust shields and seems to be noisy. You may actually be losing braking performance with this caliper "upgrade" versus the stock 2pots. It does look better however.

If you want a good front and rear upgrade in that price range consider the STi 4/2pots instead.

ss
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Old 03-08-2003, 03:56 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Siper2

There is of course the STi setup, too. I don't know though, I'm starting to lean toward upgrading both the front and rear brakes, if a full-out kit is to be done. I'm aware of the obvious front brake bias, but a lot of people here argue the practicality of brake kits, and not really needing them unless you do a lot of racing where the smaller calipers/rotor diameter cause brake fluid boil...

To me it seems that some folks don't see huge gains with front brake upgrades, like the STi 4-pots, but then again I think that those were designed to work WITH the STi 2-pot rear calipers, and regardless of the fact that the fronts do most of the stopping, maybe that's the real deciding factor. Maybe what makes it worthwhile is when you do a full upgrade, pulling no punches. Makes sense to me.
Youre correct siper. Actually installing the STi 4/2pots nets an overall ~10% increase in rear brake torque vs the stock setup on the WRX and a ~3.5% increase in rear brake torque on the RSs(and all Subarus starting with 277mm fronts and 266mm rears like my 97 Legacy GT.)

Both of these are a step in the right direction with a net increase of the rear torque of about 10% apparently being the sweet spot.

ss
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Old 03-09-2003, 09:14 AM   #15
mav1c
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Ya know, I'm not trying to come down on you, but I really hate when people spend all this money on built engines to go really fast, but them skimp on the brakes. I would do it the other way around. Get the brakes first, then the big HP, but that's just me.

IMHO if you should get a BBK kit like the Stoptech's. Please don't skimp on something as important as brakes.
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Old 03-09-2003, 09:24 AM   #16
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has anyone on here actually had problems with the wilwood 6/4 setup? I'm also looking for a solution, but I want it to be as light or lighter than stock....
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Old 03-09-2003, 09:48 AM   #17
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The Stoptechs are lighter than stock. I think it's like 4-5lbs each side.
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Old 03-09-2003, 11:53 AM   #18
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i never said i was skimping on brakes. i just said that i dont want a big brake kit. the rims i will be using can be no larger than 16's, so i am limited. therefor i cannot go with a big break kit. if i wanted to buy a BBK i would. i just wanted to know what was the best brake kit without going with the BBK.
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Old 03-09-2003, 12:06 PM   #19
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Lachute Subaru run Willwood four pots on their Rally cars as well as on their personal cars and have had no problems, I got this information from Mark at Lachute, if they are good enough for their rally and personal cars thats a high recomendation in IMHO.

Pat.
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Old 03-09-2003, 12:12 PM   #20
mav1c
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Ah. You never said in your orginal post that you had to keep the 16's. Why do you have to keep them?
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Old 03-09-2003, 12:19 PM   #21
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subysouth,

Well thanks for your agreement. I'm usually not right when it comes to tech discussions. (I guess there's no saying I'm right this time either, but hey I tried. Heh.)

I don't know, I mean I know the rear brakes don't account for much, but it seems that if you're to do a caliper upgrade in the front, particularly like the 4-pot system which retains the same rotor diameter--at least on the WRX--that you might NOT make much of a difference without tinkering with the rears, too. Yeah it's only about 20% or so of the car's braking force, but 20% can be a lot when you count it in with the upgrade you're doing, right?

Otherwise, let's take my RS for example, the simplest way to upgrade braking distance and some fade would be the WRX rotor/caliper bracket change, I assume. Which I'd like to do, buuut for now I'm kinda broke so I foresee my OEM stuff staying on for a while. What kind of sucks is that I'm at a crossroads when it comes to wheel/tire choices. My Dunlops on my OEM wheels are for summer, that's a given. But my Nokians for winter on my 15" steels are worn now, this was their third and probably last season (last effective season, anyway... they behave like all season tires now).

So, do I sell both the wheels AND tires to someone looking for something, run my summers, then purchase new 16x7 wheels for either winter or summer so that I have two sets of 16"s that can clear 4-pots in anticipation of doing an upgrade....

...or, to save a bit of money now, do I just put new 15" tires on my steels sometime this summer, for winter, since I can't really foresee affording a big brake setup anytime soon.

???

Choices suck.

-S2-
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Old 03-09-2003, 03:14 PM   #22
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STEALTH-WRX - if you want to keep your stock 16x6.5" wheels this is an option ->

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=308160

Siper2 - if you want to run the OE 16x6.5" wheels you can check out the option in the link there.
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Old 03-09-2003, 04:39 PM   #23
STEALTH-WRX
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i really like those, although the price is steep even if 25 people buy them.
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Old 03-09-2003, 05:50 PM   #24
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Is the STi 4pot/2pot combo lighter than the stock wrx setup?? I know the front STi kit comes with stock WRX rotors, but if you were to upgrade to the DBA slotted rotors or something of the like woud it be even heavier than stock??

Im asking because im leaning towards the red sti fronts and red rears, but also want to shed a few pounds while im at it...Rallisport has a pretty good deal on them..
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Old 03-09-2003, 05:54 PM   #25
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STEALTH-WRX - of all the things you can skimp on for a car, brakes aren't one of them, nor are tires.

boostedgst - the STi 4/2's are actually a little heavier in weight vs. the stock WRX stuff. (this is in total). The rotors being 294mm vs 290mm are slightly heavier as well.

To shave some weight, go with a 2-piece OE WRX sized rotor if you're going w/ the STi 4/2's.
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