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Old 03-07-2003, 03:49 PM   #1
Balls
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Default Sloppy handling?

Ok... about a month or two ago I test drove a WRX. I didn't like it. I felt like I was driving an SUV. My last car was an ITR and now I'm thinking that an S2000 might be a better choice for me.

Now I know that the STi won't have the same setup as the WRX... but it's got to be a WHOLE LOT better than what I drove a few months ago... are there any numbers for spring rates or anything out yet? I've heard about the inverted struts... don't really know what that means, but it seems to help with turn in. (yeah?) Anyway, I was pretty annoyed with the WRX and I am fairly concerned that the STi's suspension setup will disappoint me... Prove me wrong.
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Old 03-07-2003, 03:53 PM   #2
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Default Re: Sloppy handling?

Quote:
Originally posted by Balls
I felt like I was driving an SUV
yeah, whatever, LOL.

stick with honda.
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Old 03-07-2003, 03:56 PM   #3
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you love it or you don't, if you want to bounce around all the time... buy a mini or chop the springs on a honduh
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Old 03-07-2003, 04:04 PM   #4
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WRX's are setup to slightly understeer from the factory.
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Old 03-07-2003, 04:14 PM   #5
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yes, understear at the limit with full throttle. just lift off and you will get some more turn in.


Porsche is almost the same. but with worse understeer at the limit.
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Old 03-07-2003, 05:01 PM   #6
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Drive the WRX with the factory performance wheels. (17's with Pirelli's) It makes quite a difference.
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Old 03-07-2003, 05:03 PM   #7
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Putting some decent tires on the WRX, and gettting the car aligned with some negative camber (-1 degree) in the front helps the handling a lot. Car turns in just fine and understeer greatly reduced
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Old 03-07-2003, 05:10 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Balls
Now I know that the STi won't have the same setup as the WRX... but it's got to be a WHOLE LOT better than what I drove a few months ago... are there any numbers for spring rates or anything out yet? I've heard about the inverted struts... don't really know what that means, but it seems to help with turn in. (yeah?) Anyway, I was pretty annoyed with the WRX and I am fairly concerned that the STi's suspension setup will disappoint me... Prove me wrong.
You're kidding, correct? The STi we're getting is better than the STi that killed the latest Type R in the turns (have several BMI videos to back this up). If you found the ITR fun, then expect the STi to be more fun. The STi chassis is stiffer (like the ITR to the GSR), a way better suspension (like the ITR to the GSR), better throttle response (like the ITR to the GSR), well, I think you get the picture. The ITR is a whole step above the GSR. The STi is more than a whole step above the WRX.

Edit: I read your post more closely. The STi with DCCD is not as easy a car to drive to the limit (or so some of the NASIOC members in Japan say). It's more twitchy and edgy. If you were to set the DCCD to 35% front, 65% rear, the car will handle as a very superb rwd car. However, in this setting, it is known to kick a persons arse if he/she doesn't take a turn correctly (ie the rear swings out and someone's gonna be doing a spin or a 4-wheel drift). If you're looking for something easy to drive at the limit, look at something like the S2000. But ultimately, the STi will outperform that car if driven correctly (I'm still waiting for the day when people cry DCCD sucks cuz they don't know its characteristics or how to drive the car properly, not that I'm saying you suck at drive cuz I never met you).

Last edited by Impreza01; 03-07-2003 at 05:16 PM.
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Old 03-07-2003, 05:17 PM   #9
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Thumbs up

Since we can't "prove" anything until the cars get here all we can do is opine and try to deduce from printed specs.

First of all, you are right. As delivered from the factory, the WRX is a mushy handler that errs way too far toward the cushy side of the scale. A fine family car. An standard Integra (not Type R) for arguement's sake. A lot of that comes from the wheel / tire choice and a lot comes from the soft bushings, spring rates, and dampers. You need to drop at least $4000 into wheels, tires, suspension to start to get what you thought you were buying in the first place. More likely $7000.

The STi, on the other hand, is the factory doing all that and more for you plus ramping up the engine performance significantly and throwing in a great 6-speed tranny on top of it all. The WRX Type R, if you follow the analogy. All for about the same increase in price. The STi engineers took the WRX and then surgically removed the "cushy" and "family" parts. Then there are the warranty and resale issues, both which get a lot more favorable for the STi buyer.

Heaven only knows how many clowns are going to buy "the best" WRX and complain about noise, harshness, and vibration

--scott
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Old 03-07-2003, 05:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
somebody else
Since we can't "prove" anything until the cars get here all we can do is opine and try to deduce from printed specs.
Actually we can considering that it's relatively the same suspension as the JDM STi.
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Old 03-07-2003, 05:35 PM   #11
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Default

okay... i guess i hurt some feelings with the suv comment....

sorry about that....
...but I am by no means a "Honda Guy". I'm also not the kind that likes to "bounce around" all day. What I do want is a car that will handle well off the lot.

So maybe the SUV comment was out of line... okay I guess that's because I'm used to driving cars with a harsh ride. But the WRX felt like it had the suspension of a Toyota Corolla. I mean... there's not much that's sporty about that. So my question remains... will the STi suspension be a big improvement over this?

ALSO: I realize that the factory wants it to understeer... there's nothing wrong with that. What concerns me is the body roll and pitch.
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Old 03-07-2003, 05:39 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Balls
okay... i guess i hurt some feelings with the suv comment....

sorry about that....
...but I am by no means a "Honda Guy". I'm also not the kind that likes to "bounce around" all day. What I do want is a car that will handle well off the lot.

So maybe the SUV comment was out of line... okay I guess that's because I'm used to driving cars with a harsh ride. But the WRX felt like it had the suspension of a Toyota Corolla. I mean... there's not much that's sporty about that. So my question remains... will the STi suspension be a big improvement over this?

ALSO: I realize that the factory wants it to understeer... there's nothing wrong with that. What concerns me is the body roll and pitch.
Go rallying in your S2000 or ITR and see how you do. The WRX boasts a long-travel suspension that is designed to do a great many things well, not just impress people with its flat cornering attitude.

It handles very well on the road, very well off road, and very well in the snow. I have current-spec STi RA suspension on my WRX wagon, and it's all the cornering you want and then some, plus it can still hammer the crap out of a rallycross course.

And the STi will be improved over the suspension that I have on my car.

Kevin
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Old 03-07-2003, 05:39 PM   #13
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I own an Integra Type-R and a WRX Wagon. I have also driven the WRX Sedan and a JDM EVO VI. Here are my unbiased thoughts.

People who refer to the Integra Type-R as a "honduh" probably have never driven one. And if they have driven one, they certainly lack the driving skills to recognise a fine handling car. Don't confuse the Integra Type-R with everyday Hondas like the Integra GSR and the Civic Si. The Integra Type-R is a tarmac-specialist of the first order.

When it comes subjective handling criteria like steering response and attitude adjustability during mid-corner, the Type-R is well ahead of the standard WRX. However The WRX has better steering feedback especially at the onset of understeer, and less torque steer than the Type-R. Objectively speaking, the Type-R will beat a WRX by about 1 to 2 % on a typical autocross course. The WRX is not as good as the Type-R on smooth, perfect pavement as it was designed to be an all-rounder rather than a track-weapon.

The EVO VI that I drove, had an even stiffer suspension than my Type-R. Overall, The EVO VI handles better than a Type-R in every category except adjustability, where the two cars are about equal. The only real problem with the EVO was that it tended to lose it's composure on fast, bumpy corners.

Unfortunately, I have never driven an STI so I can only go by What I've heard from respectable sources. The STI is probably going to be SLIGHTLY softer sprung than the Type-R, but much stiffer and responsive than the standard WRX. In addition, the Type-R is an old design that needs to be stiffly-sprung in order to compensate for the lack of chassis rigidity. With the STI's stiffer chassis, there is no need to overspring the car in order to get sharp steering response and good body control.

If you're going from a Type-R to an STI (as I am), you will not be disappointed. I can almost guarantee you that the STI will out-handle the Type-R.

I wish some people on this messageboard as well as other messageboards, would try to view all cars with an open mind...
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Old 03-07-2003, 05:47 PM   #14
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.

Last edited by spburns74; 03-07-2003 at 06:01 PM.
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Old 03-07-2003, 07:44 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Impreza01

If you're looking for something easy to drive at the limit, look at something like the S2000.
From what I've heard... S2000 is not easy to drive at the limit...
you might wanna try the E36 M3s..

(And yes... no proof... just what I've heard from others and
various msg boards..)
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Old 03-07-2003, 08:33 PM   #16
Balls
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heh... i heard the same... that to s2k wasn't easy on newbs....

When I think of something that's easy to drive at the limit I think of front wheel drive....
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Old 03-07-2003, 08:40 PM   #17
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search....I already asked this question last week.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=322322

FYI, I'm mainly a "honda guy", and I used to own an S2k, and I've driven NSX's, currently I own a Supra and an Integra -- the kinds of cars where you just sorta "think" where you want to go and the car goes there.

The above link should help some.
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Old 03-07-2003, 09:51 PM   #18
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All of you just wasted your time (along with myself).

This guy is just a troll, who is now sitting back laughing at all the responses he got.

WRX like an SUV, he is just searching for the superlative.
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Old 03-07-2003, 10:03 PM   #19
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hahaha
i read that thread....
it sort of addresses what i'm asking... i just felt like asking again...

I thought if I presented the question differently i might get different responses... and... i did... haha

not like i was looking for the superlative or anything...
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Old 03-08-2003, 02:41 AM   #20
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Sloppy stock, but ive now followed two WRX's with STI suspensions on some really really really twisty back roads and they are not sloppy anymore. The STI will not be sloppy.
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Old 03-08-2003, 04:36 PM   #21
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good thread, I'm actually still trying to decide between a WRX or S2000. I like to take turns as fast as possible, AWD would be best for this right?
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Old 03-08-2003, 04:46 PM   #22
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not to be an arse.. but if you are trying to find a car that is GREAT in every aspect for $23k (new), I wish you good luck.
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Old 03-08-2003, 05:01 PM   #23
Balls
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itr was great off the lot... under 25k before all the fluff...

and we're talking about 35k now....
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Old 03-08-2003, 05:37 PM   #24
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Default Re: Sloppy handling?

Quote:
Originally posted by Balls
Anyway, I was pretty annoyed with the WRX and I am fairly concerned that the STi's suspension setup will disappoint me... Prove me wrong.
Haha, whatever dude, we could care less about trying to convince you.

Let me guess... You're new here, right?

Take that attitude to s2ki and see how far you can get.
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Old 03-08-2003, 06:39 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Impreza01


better throttle response (like the ITR to the GSR),
Ah.. who knows about the throttle reponse. The fact that the new STI will be drive by wire is one of the major reasons making me take a wait and see attitude about the STI.. Drive by wire can ruin a car's performance if not done well. And we won't know how well the drive by wire works until some mags get aholt of a real US STI and take it through some tests. As to the WRX suspension. It basically sucks because of the tires. Change the tires and the car is a lot better. Replace the suspension with an STI suspension (about a 2k cost) and some better wheels and tires and it supposedly is a whole new car.
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