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Old 03-07-2003, 05:20 PM   #1
Impreza01
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Default Blaming DCCD?

Seeing how there's alot of people driving their first high-powered AWD car, I'm pondering if people will start blaming DCCD when they crash. I've seen numerous vids and shirokuma also seem to agree that show the DCCD, while it does it's job, can make the car tail happy if the driver doesn't know he/she is doing.

Should we wait to hear the "I crashed cuz DCCD kicked in (even though in truth it's active all the time", "DCCD made the car too twitchy for me and made me crash (even though the driver should know what he's doing when buys a car like this)".

Or are my fears unjustified? Shirokuma, any input?
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Old 03-07-2003, 06:14 PM   #2
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people crash RWD cars all the time, and there isn't an epidemic of blaming the car. people turn off traction control, etc., and don't sue the company for putting the button there.

I think we'll be ok.
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Old 03-07-2003, 06:49 PM   #3
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Default Re: Blaming DCCD?

Quote:
Originally posted by Impreza01
Seeing how there's alot of people driving their first high-powered AWD car, I'm pondering if people will start blaming DCCD when they crash. I've seen numerous vids and shirokuma also seem to agree that show the DCCD, while it does it's job, can make the car tail happy if the driver doesn't know he/she is doing.

Should we wait to hear the "I crashed cuz DCCD kicked in (even though in truth it's active all the time", "DCCD made the car too twitchy for me and made me crash (even though the driver should know what he's doing when buys a car like this)".

Or are my fears unjustified? Shirokuma, any input?
I don't think you'll see too much blaming. I expect the STi market to be more mature than the WRX market(which is already quite mature for a fast import market).
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Old 03-07-2003, 07:18 PM   #4
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Myst post was in light of the RE-92 blamings that had begun before NASIOC people had to start putting them in their places (RE-92 fault, yeah right; one should know the limit of his or her car).
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Old 03-07-2003, 07:25 PM   #5
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How much different is DCCD at 65\35 then RWD? Shouldn't it be slightly more controlled? I have driven RWD cars all of life and love the idea of having AWD in bad conditions and RWD for the track. Is that what DCCD will be like?
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Old 03-07-2003, 07:38 PM   #6
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Mmm, one would think it'd be more controlled, but read shirokuma's article on apexjapan.com or watch the video posted on this forum (yeah teh 400+MB one) and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Oh, and I think you mean 35/65
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Old 03-07-2003, 08:06 PM   #7
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I see Corvettes spinning out all the time because the driver doesn't realise what he/she is driving. Rear wheel drive is a lot less predictable than a AWD and you don't see people blaming the corvette.
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Old 03-07-2003, 08:45 PM   #8
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I guess my fears are a little unjustified, but I recall other stupid accusations. For one, remember the Prelude SH and it's Active Torque Transfer System (ATTS); some people crashed their Preludes SH and were blaming it on that.
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Old 03-07-2003, 10:18 PM   #9
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People will blame the front diff for crashes.
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Old 03-08-2003, 12:37 AM   #10
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Damn the many litigous Americans...
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Old 03-08-2003, 01:11 AM   #11
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Uhh speaking of the RE-92's I managed to spin all 4 in a straight line the second day I owned the car... Up a hill... On wet pavement.... With a roll on to WOT in 1st (IE no clutch dump to start it).

Sorry but that tells me just how "good" they really are if that **** happens.
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Old 03-08-2003, 01:26 AM   #12
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Everything is relative.

The STi with DCCD is going to be easier to get right up to the limit than a Corvette, S2000, or a whole heavenly host of other fine machinery. That is it's strongest and weakest point. Strong, because it can, and will, make barely competent drivers look like heroes. Weak, because once those drivers get used to that, they'll feel an urge to keep pushing it to find (their) limit, and will end up shunting into the weeds. If they are lucky, and don't hit a pole, tree, parked car, curb, house, or random pedestrian. Like the person that test drove the new Evo on launch day and ended up being an owner of a slightly bent Lancer Evolution.

The other strong and weak point is the price. Same as the Evo, it's cheap, hella cheap performance for the buck. Not cheap on the same scale as the Camaro, but imagine more along the lines of a Corvette Z06 being available for 30grand brand new. That means that a lot of people that couldn't afford such performance before now can - but unlike the mainly middle-aged Corvette owners, haven't had the years of driving to filter out the more aggressive habits.

But it's all a moot point - the Evo and STi have finally made it (or are about to), the prices are (almost) known, and the owners will experience it themselves. I personally hope there isn't a single accident that's the owners fault in the new STi's this year, but I wouldn't lay money down on it.

The DCCD isn't going to be inherently unsafe. What it is going to do is surprise the new STi owners that expect the STi to handle like the WRX, or any other number of past AWD vehicles that have been sold in the States - or overseas, for that matter. It is simply going to be more like a powerful RWD in feel and operation than even some other powerful RWD's - such as the 350Z. I find nothing wrong with that - there's a reason that the STi has caught up to the Evo on the track - but there is still a lot of misconceptions of just what that means. Somebody that's going from a Corvette or M3 will be pleasantly surprised with the STi (if not extremely happy), but somebody moving from a Accord or Civic is going to be shocked by it's handling.

IMHO, any new owner of the STi should enroll in driving lessons (of the studly kind) as a form of insurance on their car (as in, keeping it in one undented piece). At least, those owners that are buying the STi to use it, and I certainly hope all are.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
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Old 03-08-2003, 02:42 AM   #13
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Note to future STI owners: Keep the DCCD on auto on the streets
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Old 03-08-2003, 08:59 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by XT6Wagon
Uhh speaking of the RE-92's I managed to spin all 4 in a straight line the second day I owned the car... Up a hill... On wet pavement.... With a roll on to WOT in 1st (IE no clutch dump to start it).

Sorry but that tells me just how "good" they really are if that **** happens.
you're going up a hill that's wet, and you do a roll on to WOT in first gear. Nobody here is going to be surprised that you got all 4 tires spinning at WOT in first gear in the wet, up a hill. You could put the best rain tires in the world on, and you're still going to have to drive to the conditions.

Subaru didn't put a power defeating or brake operating traction control system on this powerful car to prevent this from happening. But, most of the people who drive cars with this type of traction control complain about it being intrusive when they're really pushing the car.

With all of the people spinning and wrecking their WRX's doing stupid things, they may think about adding this Traction control to future cars.

And...part of driving a car is knowing it's limits, and not exceeding them. crappy tires included.
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Old 03-08-2003, 10:42 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by robmarch


you're going up a hill that's wet, and you do a roll on to WOT in first gear. Nobody here is going to be surprised that you got all 4 tires spinning at WOT in first gear in the wet, up a hill. You could put the best rain tires in the world on, and you're still going to have to drive to the conditions.
Looked like wall-to-wall sarcasm from where I'm sitting. At least I hope it was.
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Old 03-08-2003, 11:44 AM   #16
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more crashed STis means more second hand parts
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Old 03-08-2003, 12:59 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jaxx
more crashed STis means more second hand parts
...and higher insurance premiums.
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Old 03-08-2003, 02:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scoobiedood


Looked like wall-to-wall sarcasm from where I'm sitting. At least I hope it was.
sorry, I must be a little slow and read right by the <sarcasm> tag
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Old 03-08-2003, 06:26 PM   #19
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Think I'll save my DCCD experimenting for the autoX. Pylons have more give stoplights and powerpoles.
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Old 03-09-2003, 01:39 AM   #20
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There are some concrete rules for driving these things safely (beside the obvious don't go too fast for the conditions etc., etc.), just like the std. WRX - #1 being don't lift-off dramatically in corners.

These cars with or without DCCD are actually very adjustable with the throttle if you are in the right gear, smooth and trained. And as always hitting the brakes in a fast corner is not for those who aren't well practised in car control But honestly, shifting from accel to decel without upsetting the chassis CAN be done, it just ain't easy, but if you get caught out coz of too much speed... <you imagine the rest>

Without saying anything about sensibility, if you use the performance of an STi anywhere near to the full on a public road, hitting something is really gonna hurt - the speeds at which things go wrong are incredibly high and DCCD (and all the gizmos in the world) can't help you then. The biggest contributor to the danger of driving an STi is, as ever, gonna be the driver...

Paul is spot on, a day or 2 learning the car under controlled conditions is a damn good idea (STi or WRX for that matter). Heck, we're no where near TMak or Solberg quality, so we do refreshers once or twice a year on the slippery tiles at Motegi...it really helps (IMHO).

I honestly hope we don't hear about any "ouches" or "crunches" when the STi lands. Please enjoy them safely

Cheers

Last edited by anotherB4; 03-09-2003 at 02:06 AM.
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Old 03-09-2003, 01:55 AM   #21
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Default Re: Blaming DCCD?

Quote:
Originally posted by Impreza01
Seeing how there's alot of people driving their first high-powered AWD car, I'm pondering if people will start blaming DCCD when they crash. I've seen numerous vids and shirokuma also seem to agree that show the DCCD, while it does it's job, can make the car tail happy if the driver doesn't know he/she is doing.

Should we wait to hear the "I crashed cuz DCCD kicked in (even though in truth it's active all the time", "DCCD made the car too twitchy for me and made me crash (even though the driver should know what he's doing when buys a car like this)".

Or are my fears unjustified? Shirokuma, any input?
Hehe.. I thought this might happen as well. My dad keeps telling me stories about when the 240z first came here. He said that there was a hand throttle on the center console in the early early models. But, they took it off because some people didn't understand how to use it, crashed it, and blamed the car and the car company. To reduce the chance of getting sued, Datsun took the thing out. They still kept the manual choke though..

Tim
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Old 03-09-2003, 10:43 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by shirokuma
IMHO, any new owner of the STi should enroll in driving lessons (of the studly kind) as a form of insurance on their car (as in, keeping it in one undented piece). At least, those owners that are buying the STi to use it, and I certainly hope all are.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen

Now that's good advice.


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