Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday November 29, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Normally Aspirated Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-09-2003, 02:19 AM   #1
joefocker20
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 13745
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Vehicle:
2004 STI
Silver

Default Cobb Heads/Cams

Has anyone used both Cobb Street and Club Cams with the stock Heads? Which one seems faster? Also, I was considering buying the Stage 2 heads with Club Cams, If I raise the redline to 7500 with this and the upgraded valve springs and retainers, will it be almost as reliable as the stock engine? What numbers do you think each setup would put up at 6000 ft above sea level with the following mods:

Ganz CAI w/ K&N - May be replacing that with a Cobb or Injen CAI
Brullen Headers
Stromung Catback
Mr Josh's Pulley
PROECM Chip
Exedy 13 lb Flywheel
Cobb Clutch
Rev-Lab Bored TB
About 250 lbs removed within the next few months
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by joefocker20; 03-12-2003 at 05:14 PM.
joefocker20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2003, 02:57 AM   #2
RawCode
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3115
Join Date: Dec 2000
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Anchorage,AK USA
Vehicle:
2002 Impreza 2.5RS
Silver

Default

With the club cams, they have valve overlap so the chances of passing emissions is slim to none.

Once you get the new springs an retainers, it should hold up pretty good. You might worry a little bit about rods and the crank but they should hold up.

If you get the stage 2 heads and Club cams, I do suggest some form of fuel management, otherwise you will get nowhere near the power from the mods. Patrick Olsen got the heads and cams, and he didn't really get any gains until he started playing with fuel.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...cobb+head+cams

Also most people agree that the stock heads are not all that restrictive, so they suggest just going for cams and such. That will get you the most bang for buck.

And if you are going to go Cobb, why not wait for their headers to be released also?

http://www.wrxforum.com/cgi-bin/ulti...c;f=4;t=000420




I would I guess...

RawCode
RawCode is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2003, 03:07 AM   #3
joefocker20
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 13745
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Vehicle:
2004 STI
Silver

Default

I already have borlas waiting to go on the car I guess I should just get Street Performer Cams and call it a day then?
joefocker20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2003, 03:29 AM   #4
Kostamojen
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2272
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: haha XD
Vehicle:
2013 Subaru 599 :P
Galaxy Blue Sexy

Default

Its been a year and those headers are still not out...

The 4 to 1 design is excellent along with equal length, but it has some odd bends to it. I like the header/cat combo idea, which would be ideal like MRT's exhaust system. But where the truck is it?
Kostamojen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2003, 04:06 AM   #5
RawCode
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3115
Join Date: Dec 2000
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Anchorage,AK USA
Vehicle:
2002 Impreza 2.5RS
Silver

Default

Just wondering, but what exactly are the odd bends? the passenger side of the header I assume?

Apperently they are waiting on prices from fabs. So so they have said.. :P

RawCode
RawCode is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2003, 04:42 AM   #6
Kostamojen
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2272
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: haha XD
Vehicle:
2013 Subaru 599 :P
Galaxy Blue Sexy

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by RawCode
Just wondering, but what exactly are the odd bends? the passenger side of the header I assume?

Apperently they are waiting on prices from fabs. So so they have said.. :P

RawCode
Passanger side, a couple more 90 degree bends then I would like to see... I dont know, just seems like TWE or the MRT are a little smoother with the bends. I still think an MRT-like design with better designed merging points that are not just prefabed merge collectors would be the perfect set up for our cars.
Kostamojen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2003, 04:43 AM   #7
joefocker20
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 13745
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Vehicle:
2004 STI
Silver

Default

What would a car with mods suchas mine dyno at if the ecu were tuned properly? I dont think any N/A cars have been properly tuned with the exception of DCotys.. Maybe 160-180 whp?
joefocker20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2003, 12:57 PM   #8
DanzBorin
Subaru Bounty Hunter
Moderator
 
Member#: 7131
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston - Back in the Alief
Vehicle:
2008 STi DGM (3rd
STI) prev 05 STi (white)

Default

Andres got 178 whp and had more than that... fully done by Cobb
DanzBorin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2003, 02:15 PM   #9
joefocker20
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 13745
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Vehicle:
2004 STI
Silver

Default

Someone can chime in, but the only things that he had that was different was I think stage 1 heads and a cobb TB. I think proper tuning will show the same gains as heads, and I may be happy while I save for the labor, cost, and core charge of heads. My second income tax return that I'm getting (amended) is enough for My Cams, installation, clutch and flywheel plus installation, bored TB, and furniture for the wife.. I also NEED to be able to pass emissions.
joefocker20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2003, 03:24 PM   #10
wistful
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 745
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
Vehicle:
2004 STi
Java Black Pearl

Default

Having done most of ur list:

JC sports intake
TWE headers, hi-flo cat
Brullen exhaust
JA cams
LW flywheel (on ordeR)

I think the most important step I can take next is proper mangement. I don't have the EGTs to prove it, but before my a/f meter went bust.. i pretty sure the car was running at less than optimal tune. I hope someone makes a programmable non-programmable ECU. IF that made any sense. =)

Don
wistful is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2003, 07:52 PM   #11
joefocker20
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 13745
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Vehicle:
2004 STI
Silver

Default

How much were the JA Cams, how much of a gain do they produce, and will they stick you in the seat at all?
joefocker20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2003, 09:32 PM   #12
AntonioS
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 23233
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Puerto Rico
Vehicle:
2000 2.5RS-T
white

Default

and where I can find those JA cams
AntonioS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2003, 09:35 PM   #13
RawCode
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3115
Join Date: Dec 2000
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Anchorage,AK USA
Vehicle:
2002 Impreza 2.5RS
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Kostamojen

Passanger side, a couple more 90 degree bends then I would like to see... I dont know, just seems like TWE or the MRT are a little smoother with the bends. I still think an MRT-like design with better designed merging points that are not just prefabed merge collectors would be the perfect set up for our cars.
I do belive that an MRT setup seems to be ideal at first glance. It is a straight shot basiclly. The thing I always end up thinking is " Look at cusco and syms headers. They seem to have LOTS of bends but they work really well."

i.e.:


I know it is a turbo design, but if the bends there don't really hurt performance, why would cobb's bends that so detremental to performance?

RawCode

P.S. Once you do get to this level of NA mods ( heads, cams, headers) It would be best to go with some type of management system, if only fuel OR timing, but both would be best.
RawCode is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2003, 09:46 PM   #14
wistful
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 745
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
Vehicle:
2004 STi
Java Black Pearl

Default

www.japanese-auto.com

the cams themselves are very inexpensive. I think 'bout half the price of Cobb's maybe. According to Yoshio, they are more aggressive than Cobb's stage 1... but not as much as their stage 2, and they're still turboable. 'course all of this is straight from the horse's mouth. There's a coupla dyno charts floating 'round somewhere. Last I heard 17+ peak. run over to www.toronto-subaru-club.com to check it out. My car FEELs fast.. whether it IS fast or not.. I have notta clue. Since installing it my car has never been in "peak form" due to one reason or another. Whether it may be a fatty exhaust leak, winter tires, slipping clutch (now) this or that. Hopefully everything will be resolved in 1 month come spring time. Exhaust leak will be fixed, CEL light gone, new clutch. If it means anything.. the car pulled to rev-limiter in fifth with two people, and all MY worldly possession. (I was moving cross country from LA to Ohio). Of course, my car has no spoiler so I dunno how valid that is.

Only thing that I'm hesitant to say 'bout J-A is though.. their customer service absolutely sucks. Unless, I guess you live in Toronto. However, if ur NOT a Canuck of the Ontario area.. ur SOL. I drove to there (four hours ish) to get it installed by him. After getting it done (with new gaskets, plugs, and supposedly everything proper) I attempted to drive home (four hours late, because he took an extra day + hours to finish it) JUUUSt when I was getting to the Us/Canadian border.. BOOM! The motor blows up. At least one timing belt tensioner pulley or something failed.. timing belt gone.. freshly installed cams spinning freely... "forcibly" inserting my valves through piston heads bending some valves in the process. Result? new shortblock + rebuilt head + three months w/o my precious baby + ~1000 for shipping fees (long story). Yoshio's reaction.. and I quote. "You cannot prove that I did this." Well.. granted that English is NOT his first language and that might be the result of his lack of eloquence, but you get the point. Fact of that matter is he shirked his responsibility. Literally 2 hours after he finished installing the cams, my motor blows up because something he/his mechanics DIRECTLY touched. And it isn't his fault? You decide. In any case.. if you wanna see pix of the carnage, search this forum. look for my name.. cams.. 'bout last april/may. they're grisly to look at.

Don
wistful is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2003, 10:20 PM   #15
watcher in the sky
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3513
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: NC
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy Outback
White

Default

I think I remember when that happened.. but didnt know it was installed by those guys at the time... wow. Good info.

Thanks

Justin
watcher in the sky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2003, 12:43 AM   #16
DanzBorin
Subaru Bounty Hunter
Moderator
 
Member#: 7131
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston - Back in the Alief
Vehicle:
2008 STi DGM (3rd
STI) prev 05 STi (white)

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by joefocker20
Someone can chime in, but the only things that he had that was different was I think stage 1 heads and a cobb TB. I think proper tuning will show the same gains as heads, and I may be happy while I save for the labor, cost, and core charge of heads. My second income tax return that I'm getting (amended) is enough for My Cams, installation, clutch and flywheel plus installation, bored TB, and furniture for the wife.. I also NEED to be able to pass emissions.
He had stage 2 heads and a more aggressive intake... also a front lsd (even though this doesn't add more hp, it makes the car faster...)

if I had to guess, you will be in the high 160s, low 170s
DanzBorin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2003, 01:11 AM   #17
joefocker20
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 13745
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Vehicle:
2004 STI
Silver

Default

Hopefully the Rev-Lab bored TB will help a little bit, but I have to buy a new TB to send them, since I cant part with my TB for a week Anyone now where to get one?
joefocker20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2003, 01:13 AM   #18
RawCode
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3115
Join Date: Dec 2000
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Anchorage,AK USA
Vehicle:
2002 Impreza 2.5RS
Silver

Default

A bored TB will not help much. It is a good idea, but our stock TB are good for around 300 hp IIRC. It will help response I belive...

RawCode
RawCode is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2003, 01:23 AM   #19
joefocker20
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 13745
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Vehicle:
2004 STI
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by DanzBorin

He had stage 2 heads and a more aggressive intake... also a front lsd (even though this doesn't add more hp, it makes the car faster...)

if I had to guess, you will be in the high 160s, low 170s
WHP?
joefocker20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2003, 03:25 AM   #20
joefocker20
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 13745
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Vehicle:
2004 STI
Silver

Default

DCoty: Do you think the mods I have/will have this month will leave me w/ a competitive car? I'm also trying to shave 250-300 lbs off of it also..
joefocker20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2003, 09:09 AM   #21
DanzBorin
Subaru Bounty Hunter
Moderator
 
Member#: 7131
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston - Back in the Alief
Vehicle:
2008 STi DGM (3rd
STI) prev 05 STi (white)

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by joefocker20


WHP?
yeah... you could put an intake on and break the 170 hp mark at the crank...
DanzBorin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2003, 01:12 PM   #22
BOY
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 232
Join Date: Sep 1999
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Ft Wayne, IN
Vehicle:
99 RS-T RIP
02 Forster-S

Default

Joe, I had a very similar setup to yours when I was still N/A (the only real big difference was I didn't have the flywheel/clutch). I made 146.3 hp and 159.5 lb-ft on FIS' Mustang Dyno (took over for Cobb when they moved to Utah). I had the street cams, custom 4-2-1 header, high flow cat, UD pulley, Weapon-R short ram intake, ProECM, knife-edged/polished TB, upgraded plugs/wires, TB bypass, TPS mod, and a couple of other small tweaks. The hp may not seem all that impressive but the torque curve was beautious... big and fat, lots of useable grunt everwhere.

http://www.fi-systems.com/customers/display.asp?UID=BOY

BOY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2003, 02:10 PM   #23
joefocker20
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 13745
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Vehicle:
2004 STI
Silver

Default

I wonder how much more in gains can be had by buying a Cobb CAI to replace my Ganz and having my ECU reflashed with ECUTEK or something comparable?
joefocker20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2003, 02:53 PM   #24
DanzBorin
Subaru Bounty Hunter
Moderator
 
Member#: 7131
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston - Back in the Alief
Vehicle:
2008 STi DGM (3rd
STI) prev 05 STi (white)

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by joefocker20
I wonder how much more in gains can be had by buying a Cobb CAI to replace my Ganz and having my ECU reflashed with ECUTEK or something comparable?
The intake will get you like 2-5hp

If you are looking into heads and such, an aftermarket ECU would be the best way to go, but Cobb might be able to retune your ECU...
DanzBorin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2003, 04:32 PM   #25
BOY
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 232
Join Date: Sep 1999
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Ft Wayne, IN
Vehicle:
99 RS-T RIP
02 Forster-S

Default

Retuning the factory ECU has pros and cons. Pros: everything is in one package, OBD-II parameters should remain, uses OE sensors so replacement should be no problem... Cons: can't revert back to stock in a pinch, limited number of reflashes before ECU becomes unstable, must reflash after any big future mods, user tunability still questionable.

As for street cams -vs- club spec I've driven both and the club spec are very potent at higher revs. The street spec give you power everywhere and are designed for stock redline. If you think you may do headwork, valve springs, raise redline etc in the future go with the club spec. If you may go turbo or s/c, keep stock redline, etc go with the street cams.
BOY is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
STi Cobb Stage 1 heads/cams, $1350!!! burnin4 Engine/Power/Exhaust 3 02-16-2007 01:16 AM
FS: 2.5 RS head with Cobb street cam chucky Private 'For Sale' Classifieds 13 02-16-2004 10:43 PM
Any one with Cobb Heads and Cams in SoCal? Hill Racer Southern California Impreza Club Forum -- SCIC 1 07-14-2001 03:33 PM
COBB Heads and bigger NA-spec cam - installed Trey Normally Aspirated Powertrain 25 10-23-2000 06:09 PM
Any one with COBB heads & cams? MD20 Technical Forum Archive 2 08-12-2000 05:55 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.