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Old 05-12-2001, 04:05 PM   #1
aowRS
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Post Speed Bleeders - good or bad?

I have a set of Speed Bleeders that I would like to employ next weekend when I install a 4-pot front brake setup.
Has anyone used these - and were you happy with the ease of use?
Any cautions?

Andreas
aowRS

[This message has been edited by aowRS (edited May 12, 2001).]
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Old 05-12-2001, 05:05 PM   #2
BradWRX
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If the "speed bleeder" is the vacuum type you fit on the nipple, they work great.

If it is a pressurized system that fits on the brake reservoir, they are really great.

If it is just a replacement nipple that you don't need a wrench to bleed, I don't like them for obvious reasons. Extra stuff that can go wrong. I want real reliable brakes.

Good luck, maybe some day I will get some nice brakes.
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Old 05-12-2001, 06:15 PM   #3
aowRS
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Yes, these are the Speed Bleeder brand of replacement bleed screws that feature a spring loaded ball valve - I am hesitant to use since I try to subscribe to the keep it simple method....
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Old 05-12-2001, 06:40 PM   #4
BradWRX
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Yeah, I would not mess with them. To me they don't save any real time. Just a quick turn of a wrench to open then close. The nipple now becomes the "wink link" in the system as it's just a check valve and yes it adds another failure mechanism. They don't do anything really favorable to offset risk.
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Old 05-13-2001, 01:45 AM   #5
scotto
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I have them on my integra, and have never had a problem. I can't comment on how well they work as I have personally not bled them. Since they have been on however the system has been bled 3-5 times with no leakage.

My understanding is that the check valve can only function when the nipples are opened a 1/2-3/4 turn.
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Old 05-13-2001, 02:04 AM   #6
SubieStu
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I say use 'em. <-- from an actual user of the product.

I've had them on my OTS for over 3 years now. They ARE simple and reliable. And make the yearly flush manageable by oneself. Even so, it helps to have help. You have to juggle keeping the master cylinder full of fluid, checking the discharged fluid and pumping the brakes. Follow the directions and you won't have any problems. You'll need an in-lb torque wrench to do it right.

Stu
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Old 05-13-2001, 07:57 AM   #7
Patrick Olsen
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They are perfectly reliable. I know of plenty of guys who use them on their race cars - if they trust them for track duty, I'm sure we can trust them for street duty. The ability to do a one man bleeding is very nice. I actually have been meaning to get them for both my cars for a while, and just haven't gotten around to it.

Pat Olsen
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Old 05-13-2001, 08:05 AM   #8
llonman
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I have them on my OBS and I say they are great. They allow you to bleed your brakes quickly and by yourself!
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Old 05-13-2001, 08:11 PM   #9
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They are fine. I have them and replaced the Mater Cylinder and Brake Booster and had to throughly flush the system and they we're definately a life-saver, as I was alone. Get them, you won't be disappointed. Also, the reliability issue is moot. Remember that when you tighen the stem down the nature/implementation of the release valve is irrelevant because when the stem is tightened, it's the same as any other stock stem. Think about a second and you'll understasnd what I'm saying...

- Steve


[This message has been edited by zzyzx (edited May 13, 2001).]
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Old 05-13-2001, 08:44 PM   #10
7000 RPM
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Speed Bleeders work very well, per my two years of personal experinece. Highly recommended if you do track events where you must bleed brakes on a regular basis. For the worrywarts - there is nothing to fail once the valve is closed...
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Old 05-13-2001, 08:47 PM   #11
7000 RPM
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RE: BradWRX's comment - vacuum bleeders don't work worth s**t. Problem is that brake cup seals only work against pressure, not vacuum. If system is brand new, a vacuum bleeder may work. If system is a few years old, vacuum bleeder only sucks in air. Result is that vacuum bleeder cannot perfectly evacuate air out of system because it is continually sucking more in. Try it if you don't believe me.
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Old 05-14-2001, 10:20 AM   #12
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7000 RPM,

Thanks for your comments. But when I make a positive statement it is based on my experience. I have a positive pressure system and a real nice AL metal Mity vac system. I have a 1997 BMW M3 that I race on the track all the time. I have used both bleeding systems, but mostly use the vacuum method for convenience. Let me tell you first hand it works great! All my years of running high speed track events, I have never had a brake failure or any brake fade with respect to air in lines etc.

I use ATE Super Blue and mainly Performance Friction PF90 pads and Euro floating rotors. I flush the system often using either the pressure or vacuum. Depends on situation and if compressed air is available. Both work fine. I vacuum bleed before every event and if it is two-three days long, I might do a quick bleed as well. I have relied on just the vacuum method with perfect results.

I am not a wimp at the track as I run in the advanced and instructors run groups at club events for BMW, Porsche and others.

So I do not understand where you get off telling me it does not work. My brake system is not new now and vacuum bleeding works on new or old systems.

Are you telling me that there is something special about Subaru brake calipers that will not allow vacuum type bleeding? I think NOT.

OBTW, My friend races a Corvette in the SpeedVision World Challenge GT series and sometimes we just do a vacuum bleed prior to the race, to "freshen up". But when the car is in the shop for convenience he uses the pressure bleed at the brake cap, because he has regulated compressed air available. If you have an air compressor use it. If not available the vacuum method works fine. He has Wilwood brakes on the Vette. He also stated that those Speeder Bleeders are a gimmick, how hard is it to just take a wrench at the nipple and spin it say 180 degrees, bleed, then close nipple. Hey this is not hard and foul proof.

I also have one on those manual pump pressure bleeders, but I sometimes get tired of pumping. If you only have one wheel off at a time, the vacuum method is faster.

Hope this response will reconsider your thoughts.

Thanks,

Brad Devendorf

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Old 05-14-2001, 11:00 AM   #13
Chin
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Brad,
I think you just fell victim to your own ideas.
So I do not understand where you get off telling me it does not work.
Have YOU ever tried Speedbleeders? It sure doesn't sound like it. If you would read the previous posts closely, you would see that they work the same as regular valves when closed. The check valve is only operational when you turn the valve about 90 degrees. When there is failure, it will be when your bleeding the brakes, not while running! I suggest that if you are going to make statements like the ones above, abide by them yourself. As for my opinion on the Speedbleeders, I love them. I have had them on my car since Oct. of '99 and have not experienced any problems. I have done a couple of track days and several AutoX events without a sign of failure. I like it because it make the bleeding a one man job. So yes, Brad, they do save ME time because I don't usually have someone there to help me. BTW, why does this buddy of yours believe they are a gimmick? What are their claims concerning the Speedbleeder? Reading between the lines gives me the answer of convenience. Later.

Christian
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Old 05-14-2001, 11:31 AM   #14
BradWRX
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Chin or Christian,

Read the posts more closely between 7000 rpm and myself! 7000 rpm was telling me that vacuum bleeders don't work and he said I should try it so I would believe his statement. I just responded that I have much successful experience with vacuum bleeders so don't tell me they don't work.

There was no mention of Speedy Bleeders at all. You are mixing two different topics. The posts between 7000 rpm and myself deviated to a discussion on the merits of vacuum bleeders. You are lost somewhere.

I question your knowledge of all the different types of brake bleeding methods. Read my post again and insert this: "these methods only require a single person". I thought everyone know this, my mistake, which you have shown me. So by myself I can bleed brakes all-day-long with vacuum or pressure methods period. Don't need to pump the brake pedal.

Now I'm off the methods topic. No I am on to Speedy Bleeders topic. Follow? Given that I use the above methods and it is a single person job, why do I need Speedy Bleeders? You say you need a wrench to open the Speedy Bleeder, using the above methods require a wrench as well. So what is the difference? Both methods use a wrench, so how does it save me anytime if I use a pressure bleed or vacuum bleed method? None. Your premise is the Speedy Bleeders eliminate the need for another person. Fine, I don't need one either. No savings at all. I don't even need to pump the brake pedal. I can bleed the brakes at one sitting without getting up. Very fast done.

Please be careful before you post and that you understand the discussion in detail. Because casting statements of victimization might just come back on you! Silly is as silly does.

Brad
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Old 05-14-2001, 11:37 AM   #15
aowRS
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When I said in my original post "Any cautions", I did not have the all-out war seen here in mind.....
I was really just curious if this Specific product works. I realize there are myriad other systems/tools available, and I respect your desire to use them. But my question specifically asked your opinions on the Speed Bleeders - since that is what I have at home at the moment.....

aowRS
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Old 05-14-2001, 11:53 AM   #16
BradWRX
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Bottom line: If you want to bleed you brakes conventionally by pumping brake pedal (i.e. you don't have a pressure or vacuum bleed method) and eliminate the extra person, then try the Speedy Bleeders. It appears that a number of people have sufficient positive experience with them.

If you have the pressure and/or vacuum type methods the speedy bleeders are not really necessary. I have no use for them. Hey a simple pressure bleed system is only $40-45. You can make one easily as well. Vacuum devices are $20-70.

Anyways, the topic deviated from your original question when others posted incorrect informaton. You can't blame me for defending myself.

I think others learned something new on the side.

Good luck.
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Old 05-14-2001, 12:11 PM   #17
aowRS
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Hey, no harm. I just wanted feedback on that specific part, since I had already purchased a set and am about to do the brakes. Thanks for all the thoughts though.

Andreas
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Old 05-14-2001, 12:40 PM   #18
Chin
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Ok, I guess I have to reply to this...
If you look at your first postIf it is just a replacement nipple that you don't need a wrench to bleed, I don't like them for obvious reasons. Extra stuff that can go wrong. I want real reliable brakes. you were probably under the impression that this is a "no tools required" replacement, correct? Then you go on to say that you would not mess with them (which is fine). Then you go on to say The nipple now becomes the "wink link" in the system as it's just a check valve and yes it adds another failure mechanism. They don't do anything really favorable to offset risk. What risk are you talking of here? Previously you didn't even know how they worked. Also, note that 7000 RPM hadn't even chimed in yet. Yes, you are correct that I took the part concerning whether or not it works out of context as I thought it was a blanket statement. However, the comment He also stated that those Speeder Bleeders are a gimmick, how hard is it to just take a wrench at the nipple and spin it say 180 degrees, bleed, then close nipple. Hey this is not hard and foul proof. is obviously not out of context. Also, to clear things up I am referring to the manual methods only here. I do not have any experience with the vacuum or pressure methods as I have no need for them, a ~$20 solution was best for me. Thanks. Silly you say, damn right! I'm silly like a chicken running with it's head cut off.

Christian
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Old 05-14-2001, 10:07 PM   #19
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IBTL! )

=Sambo
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