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Old 03-15-2003, 10:21 PM   #1
markpaco
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Default Rant: Cruise but no radio?

I don't care that the STi doesn't come w/ a radio since I know that I can pick one up cheap from a fellow member. However, I don't understand why Subaru chose to delete the radio over the cruise? Here are my points to show why it was a poor choice:

1. Cruise must have a higher safety factor since it deals with the accelerator pedal. If it were to fail and leave the driver with a stuck throttle, the consequences could be fatal. If the radio breaks, oh well. For SOA to choose an item subject to recall/litigation over an entertainment device is beyond me.

2. Cruise contains more parts and they are located in numerous areas in the car. Deleting them from the assembly process would significantly decrease assembly time which allows for better overall cycle times, better quality control, and lower cost. The radio is still prewired in the STi so the time saved in assembly is negligible since you install the wiring anyway. Additionally, since the parts of the cruise is scattered throughout the car, assembly quality issues and increased troubleshooting procedures apply (a system of electrical/mechanical components). Whereas the radio is a single unit and is easily troubleshooted. If you have looked at a repair manual, the section for the cruise is much longer than the entertainment system. The typical solution for repairing the radio is replacement. Yet the cruise recommends repair/replacement of single cruise components (switches, CPUs, etc)

3. Although, I am not sure about this, the cruise control system probably costs the same, if not more, as the radio. Yet the radio would be used more than the cruise control in most cases. Regardless of whether I was on a long or short trip, the radio would be on. Yet even if you are on a long trip, having a lot of traffic around you wouldn't make using the cruise safe so it doesn't mean that it would always be used in long trips.

4. The cruise control system likely is supplied by numerous suppliers (switches from one, brackets from another, harness from yet another, and electrical/mechnical from another). That requires significant quality control issues. The radio is from one supplier.

On a subjective note, being a motorsports enthusiast, I prefer to have the control of the throttle while driving; even on long trips. Why would you want cruise when you have 300 hp/300 ft-lb at your disposal?

I have an Integra Type R which attracts the similar type of customer as the STi. This car is trimmed similarly as the STi with the exception of the radio/cruise. So with so many satisfied users with the ITR, why would SOA differ? True, there are times that I wish there was cruise but that is like once a week. If I didn't have my radio, I'd wish I had it every day.

I was thinking about the fact that this car is based on an existing car so the minute deletions would not significantly affect it. However, this would be true with the RHD versions since it would be as simple as including/excluding components. Yet, although seemingly the same, the LHD version can have some significantly different parts such as a/c and brake plumbing, wiring harnesses routing, bumpers, etc. This is enough to warrant an evaluation of the options included.

Conversely, the case for including the cruise is that cruise is not something that the typical DIY'er can install themselves. Perhaps SOA decided that including the cruise would be a better long term choice since many enthusiasts prefer to upgrade their stereo systems anyway. Yet, I would prefer to delete it all together to lower the cost of the vehicle further. And, contrary to popular belief, the cost savings of car components are measured in cents, not dollars; because those cents add up to dollars per car, which add to hundreds of thousands per year.

Well, maybe I am analyzing the situation too much.
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Last edited by markpaco; 03-15-2003 at 10:53 PM.
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Old 03-15-2003, 11:00 PM   #2
ANZAC_1915
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Actually you're wrong because the cruise adds little weight to the STi because it has a drive by wire system, so it is essentially the weight of the column switch.

Also, a radio is more easily added later.

Glenn
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Old 03-15-2003, 11:48 PM   #3
markpaco
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oh yeah, forgot that it has DBW.
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Old 03-16-2003, 01:20 AM   #4
97itr153
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Default Re: Rant: Cruise but no radio?

Quote:
Originally posted by markpaco
I don't understand why Subaru chose to delete the radio over the cruise? Here are my points to show why it was a poor choice:

1. Cruise must have a higher safety factor since it deals with the accelerator pedal. If it were to fail and leave the driver with a stuck throttle, the consequences could be fatal. If the radio breaks, oh well. For SOA to choose an item subject to recall/litigation over an entertainment device is beyond me.

Well, maybe I am analyzing the situation too much.
SOA included the Cruise because they figured that at least 95% of the people buying the STi will have an IQ over 100. These people will have the brains necessary to quickly deal with the stuck-throttle syndrome by stepping on the brakes or killing the engine.

BTW, My ITR came with a CD player/radio. In the last 4 years I have probably used it fewer than 20 times.
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Old 03-16-2003, 01:27 AM   #5
StiDreams
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It would probably be failry easy any dealer or shade tree to install a deck and some speakers. But based on your satety argument, it would probably be better for the factory to install a item like cruise.
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Old 03-16-2003, 01:56 PM   #6
DR EVYL
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I'd rather have the cruise control from the factory, and buy my own radio. I'm sure what I buy will be better than Subaru's setup. Can't say that about cruise.
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Old 03-16-2003, 06:45 PM   #7
rsholland
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Default STi cruise control

The irony here is—the STi is the Subaru in which cruise control will probably be least used! To top it off—the STi cruise control stalk is the best offered in any North American Subaru!

Why is it best? It's the only Subaru where the CC on/off button is contained on the end of the stalk.* Therefore all the CC functions are contained in one spot. All other Subies have the CC on/off switch on the dashboard.

Granted, it's a minor detail, but the devil is in the details.

* I sat in a STi at the Baltimore Auto Show last month, and noticed that the CC stalk differed from that used in other Subies.

Bob
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Old 03-17-2003, 03:24 AM   #8
Kostamojen
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Default Re: STi cruise control

Quote:
Originally posted by rsholland
Why is it best? It's the only Subaru where the CC on/off button is contained on the end of the stalk.* Therefore all the CC functions are contained in one spot. All other Subies have the CC on/off switch on the dashboard.

Bob
I remember folks compaining about that button awhile ago... Funny stuff
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Old 03-17-2003, 10:40 AM   #9
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Personally, I cannot afford to drive both a track/x car and a daily driver. So, teh STi will be both, with the initial emphasis being on the daily driver part. Further, the wife would not be at all interested in a car that had no CC. We usually do one road trip of several thousand miles each year, and spend a lot of time driving on very clear highways. CC is definately a nice luxury to have.

Not everyone is looking for a car to race F1 in, here. CC is a relatively easy thing to include on the car, especially with DBW. I would also imagine that SOA is privy to market research that we are not, and would further assume that CC is something that folks like to see in a car in the US.
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Old 03-17-2003, 01:11 PM   #10
rsholland
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Default Re: Re: STi cruise control

Quote:
Originally posted by Kostamojen

I remember folks compaining about that button awhile ago... Funny stuff
I think you're thinking of paisan, over on the Edmunds forum when I brought this up. He didn't think it would as reliable as having the on/off button remain on the dashboard, IIFC. Toyota and others have had the the CC on/off switch located on the end of the CC stalk for years, like the STi. I haven't heard anyone complain.

Bob
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Old 03-17-2003, 02:23 PM   #11
rally_wannabe
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I use my cruise about 3 to 1 compared to my radio (how the hell else can you avoid getting tix on the GW Parkway with it's silly 40 MPH limit?).

radio is easier to aftermarket install.

cruise is much higher on my priority list.

so glad this is how they went.
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Old 03-17-2003, 03:51 PM   #12
peepshow
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Quote:
Originally posted by DR EVYL
I'd rather have the cruise control from the factory, and buy my own radio. I'm sure what I buy will be better than Subaru's setup. Can't say that about cruise.
That wouldn't necessarily be true if we got the nice McIntosh deck that the JDM gets.

- Trent
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Old 07-11-2003, 10:56 AM   #13
rsholland
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Default SOA reason for no STi radio

I was talking with a friend who works at SOA yesterday, and who is in a position to know, who said the reason the STI does not come with a radio is due to the added weight. Believe it or not, the added weight of a radio would put the STi's import tax into a higher bracket, and would impose an additional $1000 to the MSRP!

I know that sounds incredible, if not outrageous, but I trust this person a lot. I'm sure the reason is valid.

If this has been discussed elsewhere at nasioc, and is already common knowledge, I'll spare you the chore: WTLW!

Bob

Last edited by rsholland; 07-11-2003 at 11:14 AM.
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Old 07-11-2003, 11:03 AM   #14
robmarch
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that's a reasonable explanation. And...probably half (or more) of the buyers are just going to rip the factory stereo right out and put something better in as soon as they can.

strange as it sounds, the radio was the correct place to save the MSRP price.

but..if they were concerned about the weight primarily, the spare would be gone, as it is in BMW's M cars, and replaced with a can of fix-a-flat and a compressor.

They really wanted to keep the MSRP of the car close to the Evo, by dropping the ~1200 off MSRP that adding the stereo would have cost them, in my opinion. Buyers can then pick up a stereo at whatever price point they like.


nice bump, by the way
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Old 07-11-2003, 11:08 AM   #15
STi&LT1
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I changed the wheel on my STi, so I have no radio nor CC....I dont miss either. If I feel the need to fiddle with radio controls, I turn the knobs on the boost controller.

I did not want a/c either...when I was in Japan looking under the hood of a spec c, there was such much more room...it looks a lot cleaner under that hood. But if they take the AC away, they have to give us the roof scoop...get rid of that stupid plastic visor thing...what good does that do? OK I am babbiling....
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Old 07-11-2003, 11:21 AM   #16
prost893
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Quote:
Originally posted by STi&LT1
I changed the wheel on my STi
OK, just curious why and what did you replace it with? pics?
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Old 07-11-2003, 12:20 PM   #17
STi&LT1
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I put a momo commander on it.

I would post pics, but I am not in the mood for the flames....its friday.

If you look at the pics of my car...do a search on trunk plugs, you can see the wheel through the back glass.

The stock wheel is to big, and I hate airbags.
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Old 07-11-2003, 12:22 PM   #18
almostcool
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Well you see subaru was aware that most people especially in the STi price bracket already take out the stock systems and put in something more to their tastes. So it makes more sense to take something out especially when you want to cut weight. That you know most people replace anyways.
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Old 07-11-2003, 12:48 PM   #19
nt5k
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Quote:
Originally posted by STi&LT1
get rid of that stupid plastic visor thing...what good does that do? OK I am babbiling....
It blocks to sun when it is at a weird angle that the normal visors don't block. I Audi is the only other manufacturer with something similar..

As for the radio over cruise.. I don't know why it would be used less in an Sti vs. any other subaru? Unless you guys live in your own state with no speed limit laws? Id rather put in my own radio anyway or do something stripped based on an ipod as input..

People have been crying to get the Sti here for years and this is what you guys find to complain about?
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Old 07-11-2003, 12:54 PM   #20
dookiebob
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Does anybody know if the cruise control stalk of the STi fits in a WRX? I'm sick of pressing the button on the console...

Anyone have a part # as well?

-Bob
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Old 07-11-2003, 01:33 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by dookiebob
Does anybody know if the cruise control stalk of the STi fits in a WRX? I'm sick of pressing the button on the console...

Anyone have a part # as well?

-Bob
there's gotta be a mod to disable the auto-off feature, no?
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Old 07-11-2003, 04:11 PM   #22
filbert
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Quote:
Originally posted by nt5k
It blocks to sun when it is at a weird angle that the normal visors don't block. I Audi is the only other manufacturer with something similar..
What plastic thing is this???

I hate the subaru auto-off cruise as well...
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Old 07-11-2003, 04:23 PM   #23
reks
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Even if it wasn't a weight concern, the fact that many owners will be putting in a custom radio is a good enough reason to have a no-stereo option. It's not like they don't offer a radio for the car, you just have to pay a little more if you want it.

If somehow you think that car is not worth it if you add in the cost of the factory radio... well.. then I guess you should be making the argument that the car should cost less than it's current MSRP without one. I suspect you'd get a lot of resistance there.
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Old 07-11-2003, 06:01 PM   #24
HFTuRbo
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I listen to tunes more than use the cc, but cruise is a necessity on long Interstate rides. The right foot on throttle gets uncomfortable over 100's of miles (putting it mildly). A factory cruise control is the best way to go. As far as the tunes go having the system as an option seems to be best for nearly everyone...
(side note)...If you order their 6 cd option make sure to let the saleman know to order the mounting brackets along with the speakers, otherwise your delivery will be delayed while they order brackets after finding out: "gee, the speakers don't fit! We needed to order mounting hardware too!"
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