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Old 03-19-2003, 08:51 AM   #1
RallyBrit
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Default SOA Trumped Mitsu at Launch - But now What???

Subaru totally trumped Mitsu on the launch of the STi and got many, including myself to put deposits down on the STi as well as the EVO.

Now the EVO is at dealerships why the heck aren't they saying something????

SOA, if you are reading this, give us a sign, something, to let us know what the STi is capable of - how about torque and HP at the 3500rpm that EVO hits peak, a torque curve would be even better.

We are all going on Faith here waiting for the STi, and in the past the EVO has outshone the STi, so some help here would be appreciated in making the wait or bail decision.
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Old 03-19-2003, 10:09 AM   #2
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I think HP and torque numbers that start with 3, and DCCD say it all.

Have patience, young Jedi.
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Old 03-19-2003, 10:30 AM   #3
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I guess it depends when the torque starts to hit. historically the STi has taken a lot more revs to get going than the evo.
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Old 03-19-2003, 10:36 AM   #4
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history isn't very helpful here, with 2.5L displacement adding low end punch
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Old 03-19-2003, 10:47 AM   #5
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The peak torque of 300ft-lbs is at 3500rpm IIRC.
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Old 03-19-2003, 11:46 AM   #6
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Default Re: SOA Trumped Mitsu at Launch - But now What???

Quote:
Originally posted by RallyBrit
Subaru totally trumped Mitsu on the launch of the STi and got many, including myself to put deposits down on the STi as well as the EVO.

Now the EVO is at dealerships why the heck aren't they saying something????

SOA, if you are reading this, give us a sign, something, to let us know what the STi is capable of - how about torque and HP at the 3500rpm that EVO hits peak, a torque curve would be even better.

We are all going on Faith here waiting for the STi, and in the past the EVO has outshone the STi, so some help here would be appreciated in making the wait or bail decision.
The US gets the most powerful STi and a crippled version of the Evo. So what's the big deal? So tell us how much torque the Evo produces at 2K RPM. That would be even better.

There's not much else to tell beyond the specs Subaru released in January: http://vocuspr.vocus.com/vocuspr30/p...s_2003_rev.pdf
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Old 03-19-2003, 12:03 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by ObsidianRS
The peak torque of 300ft-lbs is at 3500rpm IIRC.

I think it is at 4000rpm. I don't doubt the high end, but the EVO engine is proven while everything about the 2.5L STi engine is pure supposition. Any concrete eveidence would be good. I know Paul Hansen says USDM better than JDM STi which sounds great.
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Old 03-19-2003, 01:10 PM   #8
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Ah. I think you are right. My bad
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Old 03-19-2003, 06:05 PM   #9
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The STi will have it all over the EVO in terms of drivability.

1. throttle response
2. handling (the EVO is a challenging car to drive near the limit)
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Old 03-19-2003, 07:21 PM   #10
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We don't know the final data for certain. But we do have data that's rather concrete and will allow us to extrapolate.

1) JDM STi and USDM STi will have the same suspension - entirely. Same setup, same dampers, same springs, same RA spec C geometry.

2) JDM STi has DCCD-A either optional or standard (RA spec C). USDM STi (so far) will have it as standard. All driving comparisons in Japan are with DCCD-equipped STi's.

3) Driving comparison test by one of the PUMA Lancer Evolution race car drivers on Tsukuba circuit - standard and RA STi vs. Evo GSR and RS (all cars ver. 8). He was 4 tenths of a second faster in the STi (2.0-litre) vs. the GSR (with ayc/acd). He was fastest around the course in a Evo RS, with the STi RA 2nd fastest. However, the STi RA was only 2 tenths of a second faster than the standard STi. Just a little bit suspicous given the weight/turbo advantage of the RA over the standard STi.

4) Data that filters from suspicous individuals who shalt go unnamed that have driven the JDM and USDM STi and has indicated that the USDM STi is somewhat straightline traction challenged.

5) STi. They are rather conservative, to be very honest. If they built a 2.5-litre turbo with 300hp/300ft/lb's of torque, then it's running rich as hell and designed to last at least 150,000miles of moderate abuse. And they really, really know how Americans feel about launching now...

Cheers,

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Old 03-19-2003, 07:32 PM   #11
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It would be extremely helpful to hear something new. I also have deposits on both the Evo and STi. The waiting gets harder with each day. The Evo is available now, the STi remains anyone's guess. I am not going to wait a year for an STi no matter how much I want it. Any substantial delay beyond the original June delivery schedule is not justified in my opinion. If I don't start seeing something soon from SOA confirming at leat initial delivery schedules I will have to bail.
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Old 03-19-2003, 07:45 PM   #12
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Paul,

I was composing when you posted.

"4) Data that filters from suspicous individuals who shalt go unnamed that have driven the JDM and USDM STi and has indicated that the USDM STi is somewhat straightline traction challenged.

5) STi. They are rather conservative, to be very honest. If they built a 2.5-litre turbo with 300hp/300ft/lb's of torque, then it's running rich as hell and designed to last at least 150,000miles of moderate abuse. And they really, really know how Americans feel about launching now..."

It is exactly this kind of information that encourages me to wait for the STi.

How about something similar officially from SOA?
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Old 03-19-2003, 08:26 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by shirokuma
4) Data that filters from suspicous individuals who shalt go unnamed that have driven the JDM and USDM STi and has indicated that the USDM STi is somewhat straightline traction challenged.
Excuse me if this is a brain-dead question but what does the above mean "straightline traction challenged"?

Sounds like a bad thing but said with a smilie? ...

Thanks
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Old 03-19-2003, 08:29 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by ObsidianRS
Excuse me if this is a brain-dead question but what does the above mean "straightline traction challenged"?
Is a bit too much power and torque from low rpm's a bad thing?

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
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Old 03-19-2003, 08:32 PM   #15
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"straight line traction challenged" on super summer tires is a powerful proposition.
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Old 03-19-2003, 08:33 PM   #16
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Ok. I guess when I read that I was picturing torque-steer and and bad handling.
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Old 03-19-2003, 08:38 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by robmarch
"straight line traction challenged" on super summer tires is a powerful proposition.
Well, all the testing so far has been in winter weather, so traction isn't what it could be.

But on my 280-290hp Legacies, I've never experienced traction problems in a straight line no matter the weather, even on snow tires. Except on snow, of course!

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
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Old 03-19-2003, 10:58 PM   #18
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Default The DR. is in the house.....

I love to watch these forums, then the Dr. comes on and gives info that just blows ya' away--

thanks Paul H.

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Old 03-20-2003, 01:46 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by ObsidianRS
Ok. I guess when I read that I was picturing torque-steer and and bad handling.
I doubt torque steer will be a problem with DCCD and the RA suspension, let alone understeer which could possibly near nil
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Old 03-20-2003, 04:28 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kostamojen

I doubt torque steer will be a problem with DCCD and the RA suspension, let alone understeer which could possibly near nil
Actually, you can get torque steer of a Subaru if you've one) got enough power and two) launch on bumpy or uneven traction surface (even tarmac). I know one place where I can induce it fairly easily if the weather is cold. It's nowhere near the torque steer of even the most limp-wristed FWD, but it does exist.

I do hope there is at least a touch of understeer, to be honest, such as the standard STi has. While nil understeer at low speeds may feel great, at moderate to high speeds it can be quite skittish in the corners, more so than a Miata, for example. I'd rather they dialed in just a touch of understeer, and left it up to the individual owners to dial it out (or more in) with an adjustable rear (or front) swaybar.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
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