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Old 03-18-2003, 10:26 PM   #1
tegnwrx
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Default ? about spool up

Might seem like a weird question but, when people talk about their turbo's spooling up 500rpms faster after upipe installs etc.... ie: 2500 as opposed 3000 What exactly are you they talking about? How do they quantify 500rpms? what method etc...
With oem ecu and stock boost control......turbo spool varies on gear, speed, rpm. Are they talking about when they start to see +boost?
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Old 03-18-2003, 10:43 PM   #2
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Old 03-18-2003, 10:51 PM   #3
tegnwrx
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what's the tach
umm okay....how about at what point do you check the tach...and don't say after you look at the turbo gauge
Quote:
How do they quantify 500rpms? what method etc...

Last edited by tegnwrx; 03-18-2003 at 11:00 PM.
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Old 03-18-2003, 11:00 PM   #4
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I plot my utec logs like this...

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Old 03-18-2003, 11:06 PM   #5
tegnwrx
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thanks DocDetroit.....what gear was that in?
Looks like you hit full boost at 3200....isn't that kinda low for a catless system?
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Old 03-18-2003, 11:20 PM   #6
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That's a 3rd gear roll-on from 2,200 RPM.

As for that spool-up being early, it's hard to say. If I could get logs from someone else's stock turbo with say a TurboXS cat-back I could plot them back to back and see.

After putting the ScoobySport down-pipe & mid-pipe on the car definately spooled faster! The UTEC actually hurt my spool a little bit. Here is a plot of the UTEC running the stock map, and the stage 2 map. I'm sure this is just because I was using a map that wasn't specifically tuned for my mods. So I can say empiracally that the change in spool was a couple hundred RPM.

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Old 03-18-2003, 11:28 PM   #7
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This one isn't as pretty. It's my car on the stock map, versus my car on the stage 2 map, versus a local guy running a stage 4 (vf30).

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Old 03-18-2003, 11:31 PM   #8
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Hey Doc, try leaning out your map in the low RPM areas to quicken up your spool time.
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Old 03-18-2003, 11:35 PM   #9
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actually I mean to say isn't that a little High for catless......i seem to remember people saying 2500rpm....that's why i posted this topic....hehe....but that plot is great info to have
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Old 03-18-2003, 11:47 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by tegnwrx
actually I mean to say isn't that a little High for catless......i seem to remember people saying 2500rpm....that's why i posted this topic....hehe....but that plot is great info to have
Here is the problem. Before I plotted my spool like this I definately couldn't have told you where I reach full boost. There is just too much going on in a fast car to sit there and stare at your boost gauge and tach and catch that very brief moment when you hit full boost. Also it's hard to compare unless the runs were all done in third gear from roughly 2,000 RPM. Also people have a tendency to exagerate. I do it to unintentionally sometimes. So the plots keep me honest. I'd love to see others plot their spool-ups in the same way. What I can tell you is with that setup (stock turbo, scoobysport, borla) the car spooled much faster than stock.

Teiva-boy - I just put a PE1818F, Perrin fuel rail, STi injectors in last weekend. I have a TurboXS top-mount sitting here waiting to go in. So I'm back to square one as far as maps go. I also installed a wideband O2 controller/sensor so that should help with the tuning a bit.
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Old 03-18-2003, 11:47 PM   #11
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Doc, I'm surprised that the Stage 2 map boosted lower and slower than stock. If you could map it, I would like to see a Stage 1 map with your current set up. On my car, the Stage 1 map seems to spool quicker than the Stage 2 map. Of course, this is just using my butt dyno.
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Old 03-18-2003, 11:50 PM   #12
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Rich,

Like tieva-boy said, I was probably rich in the lower revs. I was using the stage 2 map, but my components weren't all TurboXS. So I'm sure it was a little less than ideal.

Sorry, I can't run the stage 1 map anymore. I just put in a bigger turbo last weekend.
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Old 03-18-2003, 11:57 PM   #13
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thanks detroit...you hit it on the head.....there is too much going on to check the gauge and rpm, as well as other factors like the method(gear,rpm, etc...)
those plots are a much better method....just didn't see too many of them when people say"it spools up 500rpm faster"
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Old 03-19-2003, 12:17 AM   #14
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I am the most accurate measure of spool-up time.

-butt dyno
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Old 03-19-2003, 06:08 AM   #15
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With a TB exhaust (with bell-mouth DP) and uppipe , I get a quick spike when the car comes on full boost. It's just barely enough to make the warning light blink on my boost gauge. I can watch the tach and when I see the light blink out of the corner of my eye, I know I just hit full boost. BTW, that happens around 2500 RPM in 5th gear. Other gears are harder to judge, but it doesn't come on as early in lower gears.
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Old 03-19-2003, 08:29 AM   #16
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Be wary not to mix up boost with torque.

If you bring a small turbo in too early by leaning it out and retarding timing you can kill the torque. A large turbo can appear to be down vastly on boost, but when you compare the torque interesting things can happen.



Looks like the 20g will be out of contention for bottom end torque, but then compare the torque curves against one of the most powerful and torquey TD04 cars done so far in the UK....



I was astonished too.
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Old 03-19-2003, 09:06 PM   #17
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Comparing spool times would be tough unless everybody started their runs/logs at the same rpm and uses the same gear.

Any consensus on this? 4th gear from 2krpm up? I do open road tuning and have a hard time finding stretches where I can wind 4th gear out - so I've been doing 3rd gear pulls.

Harder to pin down, but we work with what we've got - right?

DD, your car sounds like it has all the right bits and will be formidable with just a bit of tuning!
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Old 03-20-2003, 12:05 AM   #18
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I agree, unless you can get everyone to do their pulls in the same way it would be hard to tell.


I also have to resort to using 3rd gear pulls for my tuning. As it is 3rd gear runs to redline get me over 80 MPH. The only place I would feel comfortable making a 4th gear pull would be on the freeway.

Yep it needs lots of tuning I really havent' even started tuning yet. My laptop only has one serial port, but I need to log from the UTEC and from the wideband controller. So i tried one of those USB/Serial converters. What a peice of garbage. So then I decided to buy a cheap palm (the FJO comes with palm software). The just discontinued the last palm that offered a serial connection! USB is so pervasive now-a-days I'm having trouble even finding a PCMCIA serial card locally.
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Old 03-20-2003, 05:21 AM   #19
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John Banks hit on a very valid point that is far overlooked in the turbo world.

Manifold Pressure is not quantitive of power production. Moving to a larger turbo can often net you increases in torque across the powerband without an increase in boost. Air-flow, not manifold pressure creates torque.

That said, it would be interesting to see Air-flow and Boost vs. RPM plotted comparing two different turbos on the same car. Even better if it was on a dyno.

DocDetroit: I'm not very familiar with the functionality of the UTEC, but could it log the MAF voltage with the manifold pressure against RPM?

-Brad
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