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Old 03-21-2003, 12:45 PM   #1
codemunky
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Question Greasing hubcentric rings for wheels?

I'm thinking of using anti-seize on the hubcentric rings. Everytime I change a flat, I need to pry them out with a screwdriver. Anybody use anything for those with hubcentric rings? Thanks.
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Old 03-21-2003, 12:59 PM   #2
Safir
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Never used hubcentric rings - but I do put anti-sieze on my hubs, wheel studs, and the surface that the wheel mates to to make it easier to remove when I need to, So i dont see why you couldn't use it on the rubcentric rings...
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Old 03-21-2003, 01:30 PM   #3
Luke@tirerack
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how often do you get flat tires ?????

as far as the question I have absolutely no problem with putting anti-sieze on a hub centric ring .....

lug hardware on the other hand

Anti-sieze on a lug nut or bolt is a very bad idea !!!

Here's why: Bolts or studs provide clamping force by being purposely stretched. Most torque specs bring a bolt well within its elastic limit. Then when loosened they will return to their original length and can be safely reused (Some bolts, including many head bolts, are purposely stretched past their elastic limit, and can not be reused). The torque wrench is the most convenient-but not the most accurate-method of properly stretching
automotive bolts. Engineers spend hours correlating the proper bolt stretch to the required turning effort.

About 90% of a torque specification is used to overcome friction; only 10% of the specified twisting effort provides clamping force. It is no surprise then that most lubricant tables recommend a 40-45% reduction of applied torque when using
anti-sieze on a bolt. So, a lugbolt coated with anti-sieze should be tightened to a maximum of 49 ft-lbs. Tightening this lugnut to 85 ft-lbs. means it is now over-torqued by 73%! Considering that most torque specs stretch a bolt to within 70% of its elastic limit, over-torquing by 73% will easily send the bolt or stud well beyond its elastic limit-and could be dangerously close to its failure point.

For this reason I would suggest to all forum members to never use anti-seize on your lug hardware.
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Old 03-21-2003, 02:13 PM   #4
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My family has been using anti-sieze on all our lug bolts/wheel studs on al of our street cars, rally cars, and race cars for well over 20 years and have never experienced a failure due to it.
Using anti-sieze and a torque wrench is much safer that the alternative (and probably the method the Tire Rack uses) of just hammering the lug nuts on dry studs with an impact wrench.`
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Old 03-21-2003, 02:14 PM   #5
codemunky
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Would it be a bad idea to use grease on the rings?

As far as flat tires, I had 2 during this month.
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Old 03-21-2003, 02:17 PM   #6
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Safir, maybe you should re-read Luke's post.

He indicated that using a torque wrench is the proper way to put on lugs, just without antiseize.

Very unfair of you to imply the incorrect method of impact wrench.
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Old 03-21-2003, 03:13 PM   #7
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Most good automotive manuals I use give a torque value and the condition of the fasteners to be tightened.

Here are some direct examples:

crankshaft pulley retaining nut (in oil - ISECO Molykote A) | 173.5 lb ft.

or

Screws securing crankshaft to flywheel (Loctite Red) 83.5 lb ft

If there is no notation, the torque value is assumed to be dry. I find this very helpful and have never had a problem following the lubrication instructions and the torquing a fastener.
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Old 03-21-2003, 05:37 PM   #8
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torque values are listed to be for clean and dry threads unless other wise noted .....


I guess according to Safir that our position as an industry leader here at The Tire Rack and my experience in the automotive field for well over 20 years (racing, building race cars, holding national competition records, ASE master certification and not to mention training techs nationally, and assisting several different engineering teams at the big three, etc.) we do not know what we are doing ...

people can say anything on the internet without having any pertinent info because there is no reprisal, but, shouldn't we all try to get the facts correct and stop the BS before posting ....

get the facts before you start insulting people
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Old 03-21-2003, 07:51 PM   #9
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On one point I have to agree with Safir.

"Using anti-sieze and a torque wrench is much safer that the alternative (and probably the method the Tire Rack uses) of just hammering the lug nuts on dry studs with an impact wrench.`"

I've tried dozens of tire shops in Atlanta. Including the high end shops like Butler Tire and everyone has over torqued the lugs using those stupid impact wrenches. They need to use torque wrenches.

If you need to set a torque wrench to over 150 ft lb. to further tighten a lug nut it is over tight. NTB was over 200 ft lb..

I now take my wheels off to have tires mounted or balanced. Then I put them on myself using a torque wrench.

Last edited by SuperRuWRX; 03-21-2003 at 08:25 PM.
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Old 03-22-2003, 12:08 AM   #10
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Are you guys purposely trying to drag the Tire Rack name through the mud or are you just illiterate?
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Old 03-22-2003, 12:40 AM   #11
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I had a friend of mine swear by using anti-seize on the studs on his car. I told him basically what luke said, and he promptly dismissed what I said. We were autocrossing that day, When autocrossing both of us usually torque the lugnuts to 85-90 foot pounds. After the event, he checked the lug nuts before driving home and discovers a majority of them were torqued less than 30 foot pounds, 1 or 2 nuts were just about finger tight.

Since then we both have backed off the amount of anti-seaze applied to the lug nuts. I also make sure to re-check the torque more frequently if I know that anti-seaze has been applied to the lug nuts.
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Old 03-22-2003, 02:39 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Luke@tirerack
people can say anything on the internet without having any pertinent info because there is no reprisal, but, shouldn't we all try to get the facts correct and stop the BS before posting ....
same to you buddy.

I come from the family of a multi-time rally champion. My father ran SCCA pro rally for VW, Dodge, Honda, and a number of privateers. My home is full of trophies from multiple venues of racing.

I have had this discussion with a very reputabile shop in the area and they agree with me.

I am not here to drag the tire rack's name through the mud. I do not hesitate to purchase wheels and tires from them, and would trust them to mount my tires for me if i lived near enough to them - I have a local race shop balance all my tires, but have to have them mounted elsewhere. All i'm saying is luke is guilty of everything he accuses me of, and needs to understand that his opinion of a subject is not always the only answer.

as for the lugs coming loose - while (i feel) it is O.K. to put anti-siexe on the wheel studs, it is VERY important that it does not get on the seat of the lug nut, or it's land on the wheel, or else the lugs will be able to back off. it is friction against the wheel that keeps the lugs from loosening (in this case)
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Old 03-24-2003, 11:03 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by SuperRuWRX
"Using anti-sieze and a torque wrench is much safer that the alternative (and probably the method the Tire Rack uses) of just hammering the lug nuts on dry studs with an impact wrench.`"
we do not even allow air tools in the building and use a torque wrench on every lug bolt/nut we install


see these sites to verify what I have stated
the facts #1
the facts #2
the facts #3
The Facts #4
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Old 03-24-2003, 12:21 PM   #14
kenchan
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omg, anti-seize on lugs??! :lol
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