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Old 03-23-2003, 07:20 AM   #1
OSUBeaver
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Default How much to mod 2.2L to =2.5L hp

Hi,
I am thinking about getting an outback sport or a 2.5RS. I love the look of the sti wagon, but I'm afraid the 2.2L will leave me wanting more. How successfull have people been with modding the 2.2? I want to stay NA, so probably the normal I/H/E, what kind of power gains can I expect, 1/4 times?
Also, how close in performance are the 2.2 vs the 2.5? If I could get the OBS to be as quick as a 2.5 i would be satisfied.


I'm just looking for a car for college before I get soemthing really nice. Thanks in adavance.

One more thing, I've been doing some searches and came across people talking about single-port and dual port exhaust. When did the change happen? can someone explain the diff when it comes to upgrades, thanks.
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Last edited by OSUBeaver; 03-23-2003 at 07:53 AM.
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Old 03-23-2003, 11:36 AM   #2
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I had a '97 OBS and it was slow . It had okay torque, but totally sucked at passing on the highway. It handled and rode well, though. As far as modding goes with I/H/E mods you might be near 2.5l power. A pulley would help, too.

Jay
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Old 03-23-2003, 04:41 PM   #3
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Just get something with the EJ25 in it, its slow enough in stock form, I couldnt imagine the EJ22..
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Old 03-23-2003, 05:24 PM   #4
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The thing is after I gruaduate, I plan on getting an S2000 or a Boxster S. So for now I want the car to be fun and can get me to the mountain. I really want to make it handle, but I hope to make it at least faster than the 91 Integra LS I had, which was fun enough for me. That's the power/speed/passing ability range I'm looking to match really. I haven't driven a 2.5, but I assume it's about as quick as my 91 LS.
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Old 03-23-2003, 06:49 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by OSUBeaver
The thing is after I gruaduate, I plan on getting an S2000 or a Boxster S. So for now I want the car to be fun and can get me to the mountain. I really want to make it handle, but I hope to make it at least faster than the 91 Integra LS I had, which was fun enough for me. That's the power/speed/passing ability range I'm looking to match really. I haven't driven a 2.5, but I assume it's about as quick as my 91 LS.
My RS can and has stomped all over LS'. If that's all you want you'll be happy an OBS.

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Old 03-23-2003, 07:04 PM   #6
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Yeah, RS'S Can stomp alot of cars, and you may as well get one and mod it, because not many people can afford a Boxster S out of college. At least the Subaru crowd is friendly, if you get a Boxster, you'll be regarded in the porsche crowd as driving a "poor mans porsche". And you can always throw about 10,000 into it when you graduate and turbo it and beat up on S2000s
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Old 03-23-2003, 08:59 PM   #7
balyndraks
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Gonna buy a Porsche Boxster S when you get out of school, eh? It's funny because when I got out of college I was like yipee, I'm making $40k/year. I went out and bought a new Saab 900 SE-T. After all, I was loaded, right? Now I make over twice that...and drive a Legacy L. Go figure. It's funny what a mortgage, a wife, and kids can do

Jay
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Old 03-24-2003, 02:52 AM   #8
Turbo GC4
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Whats a "mortgage"... is that like an "Boost Gauge?"

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Old 03-24-2003, 05:00 AM   #9
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Well, my brother has an S2000, and I really can't explain how fun it is to drive, and the experience it offers, but there's more to it than straight line numbers. My other bro has a WRX wagon and that drives great too. My parents are willing to buy me an S2000 right now, which is way cheaper than a used boxster S, but I could also get one of those if I wanted to work 20 hours a week and be car poor. So me saying I want an S2000 out of college really is that extreme, especially since you can get them for ~25,000 used NOW. But instead of letting my parents pay for college and everythign else and buy me a car, I just want a car for now that will be funner and get me to the mountain unlike my toyota camry.
So, back to my question, what will it take to make the 2.2 as fast as a stock 2.5? I really want to use teh GF8 body and get and rs bumper, a P1 lip, and just really make it look nice and handle like crazy. For the type of driving I want to do with the car, stock 2.5rs levels of power and speed are all I'm looking for.
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Old 03-24-2003, 07:10 AM   #10
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well, iirc the 2.2l engine made as much as 142 (?) hp. my '97 OBS was 137 i think. I/H/E and a pulley will get you close. of course, so will a turbo kit

Jay
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Old 03-24-2003, 09:04 AM   #11
Kevin Thomas
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Quote:
Originally posted by OSUBeaver
For the type of driving I want to do with the car, stock 2.5rs levels of power and speed are all I'm looking for.
Without going turbo, it's not going to happen unless you want to do extensive N/A mods. A simple intake/exhaust/header and pulley will probably get you into the high 16 second range *In a manual* in the 1/4 mile which is about equal to an auto 2.5RS. In an automatic, expect low 17s in the 1/4 or high 16 if you are lucky.

Otherwise, you'd have to go turbo (5psi of boost) to equal a mildly (Intake/exhaust/header/pulley/manual) modified 2.5RS (In a manual 2.2ltr OBS). In a turbo'd autotranny OBS (with 5psi of boost), you'll be running mid to high 15 seconds in the 1/4 mile @ approximately 85-86mph.

Get the S2000!

EDIT: I forgot to mention that with a 50-60 shot of nitrous, you can run just as fast or a bit faster than if you your OBS was turbo'd. I was getting anywhere from 15.3-15.5@85-86mph using a 60 shot of nitrous (in an auto). Expect the same whether a manual or auto since I was hitting the nitrous off the line.

Last edited by Kevin Thomas; 03-24-2003 at 09:09 AM.
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Old 03-24-2003, 10:35 AM   #12
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2.2 got around 147 hp in...what...1998? Our '96 L has 135hp, and I honestly don't think it needs that much more. The car certainly isn't slow, though it does kinda run out of breath around 5500 rpm.
One thing to keep in mind is weight...any 2.5RS will have all the power garbage, body junk, etc so it kinda negates some of the HP increase. Our L has none of that stuff, just a L spoiler on the back, manual windows, no sunroof, etc and is very light. So maybe that is why I'm happy with it.
If you're talking about the new body style I don't know what they weigh in comparison.
OBS will weigh more right away due to the extra glass alone.
What you really need to do is just drive them and see for yourself. Our basic, grocery edition 2.2L runs just as well as the Jetta GLI 16v we dumped to buy it.
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Old 03-24-2003, 02:48 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by joefocker20
Just get something with the EJ25 in it, its slow enough in stock form, I couldnt imagine the EJ22..
If you think the EJ22 would be slow, how bout my EJ18?

My engine = teh weak.
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Old 03-24-2003, 03:31 PM   #14
ciper
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My 130hp ej22 in an auto can easily stomp a brand new OBS with the 2.5l

What Im getting at is HP isnt the only thing that makes a car slow.
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Old 03-24-2003, 04:19 PM   #15
OSUBeaver
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Thanks for all teh great replies. I have beeen doing some research, and the ghetto wrx turbo custom up/down pipe homemade kit with the saab intercooler looks interesting. Also the I-Speed conversion looks sweet, but too much $$$. I think I'm gonna go the OBS route and see what I can do turbo wise. Maybe throw on some NOS until I figure the turbo deal. I really love the S2000, but it's been my dream since middle school after Gran Turismo 1 to have a sti5/6 wagon. Or I could find a super cheapo old L wagon for 3g's, then the 7Gs for the i-speed swap would impact me so much, ad I would have a super sleeper monster

One more thing. Mr. Thomas, can you tell me more about your Tubo'd OBS or point me to a thread about it? thanks.
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Old 03-24-2003, 04:59 PM   #16
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The 2.2l is not really that bad, but it is always nice to have more power. If you are looking at mods, a supercharger kit is on the horizon which will give you 190-200hp for about $3500. See DNTPerformance in the aftermarket induction forum.

The S2000 is a great car, but not so good if it is your only car. Not so good in snow either.

I recommend to get the 2.2 wagon. (of course!) Mod the suspension first. Swap the filter, remove the snokus, swap the pulley then wait for the SC. Or do the WRX motor swap. The 2.2 are way cheaper to buy than an RS. Put the savings into performance mods and your car will be better than a stock RS any day.
Header and exhaust are more noise than power. You might gain 5-10 hp for the $700 bucks.
The most powerful 2.2 was 142hp in the 99-01 L and OBS. Definitely get a standard.
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Old 03-24-2003, 06:37 PM   #17
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linsavy makes a good suggestion. I'd get the 2.2L Impreza over the 1.8, cause the 1.8 blows, and the 2.5 would be too much money for not a whole lot more power.

Good tires, good brakes and a better suspension setup will make the car more fun to drive. I wouldn't do a whole lot power wise if you were planning on doing a WRX swap anyway.

This is the same formula I'm following on my car - rims/tires, brakes, suspension THEN power. My car is still pretty slow, but overall, it's definitely much better than stock.
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Old 03-24-2003, 06:51 PM   #18
ciper
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Engine wise I think the 2.5 is lighter than the 2.2, if not equal.
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Old 03-24-2003, 07:57 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by linsavy
The 2.2l is not really that bad, but it is always nice to have more power. If you are looking at mods, a supercharger kit is on the horizon which will give you 190-200hp for about $3500. See DNTPerformance in the aftermarket induction forum.
Uh... isn't the supercharger for the 2.5L? I would be really interested in it if I could use it on my 2.2
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Old 03-24-2003, 09:49 PM   #20
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The DNT plan is to "eventually" issue the sc for the 2.2l and the MAF 2.5l. The bracket should be the same, but the engine management and injectors and intake differ. They have an OBS and older Legacy for test mules.
If impatient you could probably buy the bracket , sc and bits and do your own thing for the other stuff. Essentially make a hybrid with say Silvia injectors, wrx pump, boost nanny, RRFPR, JS Safeguard, etc.
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Old 03-24-2003, 11:29 PM   #21
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Ahhh, that sounds good. I don't have money to throw into the car anyway, but I would imagine my car payments will be ending when the kit is developed for the 2.2. I can't wait to make my car a little faster. I haven't looked, but I am assuming that if you used the closed-deck EJ22T then you could put out some mad power with this supercharger.
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Old 03-25-2003, 12:40 AM   #22
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In spite of my RS ownership, in your case I would recommend an OBS. I myself often wish I had one as a fun get-around ar. the 2.2 liter won't dazzle you, but it's not wimpy. Also, most EJ25 aftermarket bits will fit it, including headers. You can probably reach 160 N/A horses with one without breaking the bank.
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Old 03-25-2003, 08:20 PM   #23
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You could always swap in a EJ25 or an EJ22t, neither will break the bank but will give you more power.

JC
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Old 03-25-2003, 09:43 PM   #24
Slack
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I have a 2000 L with the following mods:

Engine/Trans:

Borla Headers
Borla Catback
Random Tech Cat section (installing this week)
K&N panel filter
PDM Racing Intake (similiar to 1st gen Ganzflow)
NGK V-power plugs
Magnecor wires
ACT Clutch Kit w/ Exedy Disc
ILP short shifter
Redline synth oils all around (engine/trans/diff)

Handling/Suspension:

KYB AGX struts
Eibach prokit springs
20mm WRX rear swaybar
STi rear strut tops
Rear drum->disc conversion (coming soon)
Stock alloy wheels (Rota Slipstream 15x6.5" when I have the $)
getting new tires soon...don't know which ones, yet.


I am planning on doing a WRX swap down the line, but so far I've been pleased with the mods I've done. Even though it has been fun, I am done with the mods untill the swap. I've spent around $2k and in retrospect I feel that the performance is not worth the money unfortunately. I haven't put in the Rand Tech Cat yet, which (I hope) will open up the exhaust as well as take a few pounds off the car. Also...I am torn about going with a larger catback (supposidly it is only 2"), but I think maybe just a larger midpipe would do the trick and save some money. Not to hi-jack the thread, but if anyone has suggestions I'd like to hear them.

All-n-all, for the money...the 2.2 is a fun car and great for the money.


Mick

Last edited by Slack; 05-14-2003 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 03-26-2003, 05:44 AM   #25
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Well after doing some research, the DNT supercahrger is looking very cool. ~$3500 and you get a system with engine management, not very intrusive, and should work with aftermarket headers if you already have them. THey said they installed it in about an hour and it should be cake to do at home. You already have a clutch, so I would think that option would be the best for your setup without having to toss the engine parts you bought.

I came up with another question Does teh ~$7000 swap cost from I-speed reflect the 56 hours of labor required or the actual cost of parts? How much have people spent swapping on their own?

I think I made up my mind though. I'll get the OBS, start on the looks and suspension, then by the end of summer I should have enough saved up to get that supercharger. Thanks for all the help guys, hopefully I'll be posting about my new car soon!!
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