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Old 03-29-2003, 10:31 AM   #1
2003forcefed
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Thumbs down Just installed GC's on MY03 PROBLEMS

I just got my car back from the shop after having Ground Control coil-overs installed. Apperence wise, the car looks really good. I set the coils so that both the front and the rear are perfectly even. I took the car for a small road trip through some paved backroad. I am not sure what is the problem with these things. They bounce ALL over the place. The car is really not safe to drive. I bought them used of a guy on this board. He said that the spring rate was set up lower so that they would work well with my stock struts. I am not sure what to do about the problem. Is there a possobiliy that they shop could have put the front on the back and vis versa? or would that make any difference. I know that I can buy some Koni inserts for the set up but then my car will be up for a day and I will have to get the spring commpressed then swap the struts. Or I am actually at the point now that I am about to order some Tein Flex coil-overs. Any input would help. Thanks in advance.


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Old 03-29-2003, 02:06 PM   #2
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Old 03-29-2003, 03:29 PM   #3
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Either the struts are too soft for the springs or the springs are too stiff for the struts (same thing, I know ).


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Old 03-29-2003, 08:23 PM   #4
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um...with coilovers (GC ones) you wont have to compress anything to remove them.

and GC doesnt make a low spring rate coilover for the Subaru...almost all are over 250lb/in. that is WAY too high for stock struts to handle. Even the 215lb/in Prodrives are pushing the struts to their limits of good handling.

You will either need the Koni's or maybe get some KYB AGX's and fit them on (the GC8 version will fit the WRX with some camber adjustment).
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Old 03-29-2003, 09:06 PM   #5
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Yeah, I have seen another WRX with GC coilovers and it bounces like crazy. They're just a bad match for the stock struts because the spring rates are too high.
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Old 03-29-2003, 09:13 PM   #6
jrgiza
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Default strut tops

Did you replace the strut tops as well? I have been reading another thread about swapping springs and or struts, and leaving the stock tophats in place. That can cause some of the bounciness as well.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...24#post3592224

Probably not as much as the mismatched spring/shock combo though...
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Old 03-29-2003, 11:35 PM   #7
2003forcefed
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So you think that the Koni's or KYB's will make the bounciness go away. Will my GC's even fit on these struts. Or are the struts make for factory springs. I might just ditch this setup and get some Tein Flex coils.
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Old 03-30-2003, 02:34 AM   #8
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I have KYB's with my GC's, its definatly not "bouncy" compaired to another car ive seen with GC's on stock struts... Thats spring rebound I believe, not a good thing.

Its definatly stiff, but not bouncy. I can feel imperfections and such in the road, but the car doesnt bounce bounce because of them... Hoping im making this clear enough

If anything, get different spring rates... You can custom order the rate and length of the Eibach springs on the GC coilovers.

Note: I also have the stock top mounts. That doesnt cause the bouncyness.
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Old 03-30-2003, 11:02 AM   #9
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You said you set the front and rear perfectly level, but not how much of a drop (if any) you put into the car. Extreme bouncyness like you describe sounds like you're riding on the bumpstops. Look in there and see how much room you have before you hit them.

Do you KNOW what spring rates you have now? If not, you might want to find out so that you can at least guess at what rates you might want to replace them with. Eibach (therefore Ground Control) certainly makes lower rates than OEM. You just have to nose through their product listing and find the ones you want that are the same physical dimensions.

Heavier damped struts would help the bouncyness, but ride will be stiffer. Hopefully you're not mistaking the two since the seats bounce around enough with a stiff suspension to muddy up where the bounce is actually coming from.

My $.02
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Old 03-30-2003, 11:37 AM   #10
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I'm running what I think is their standard setup (350 lbs front, 300 lbs rear) on stock struts and it is barely stiffer than stock in most cases. I'm also running at or around stock ride hieght, so that might make a difference. BTW, you don't need a spring compressor to put Konis in with the GC's. Just crank the springs down until they aren't under tension. Very easy. I've got a set of STi Ver 7 takeoffs on the way and will probably put the GC's on those. I tracked the car with my current setup just 2 weeks ago and it worked fine. I wanted a little more dampening in the struts, and that's one reason I got the STi struts. My opinion on why you bounce- the car is lowered. Stock struts aren't made to be compressed an extra inch or two and remain there the whole time. I've always had bad luck with that on other cars. -Bolster
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Old 03-30-2003, 05:17 PM   #11
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colin,

here are your problems, which are 'incompatibilities' with the higher spring rates of the GC's:

1. stock struts
2. stock top mounts
3. stock tires? (you didn't say)
4. vermont roads (frost heave city)

being a vermont resident as well, i can certainly attest to #4.

i have been a GC customer for quite a few years now, and have always been pleased - but you have to understand the basic principles of them and then modify the rest of your suspension accordingly (imagine buying tein's or whatever coilovers, without the struts or top mounts... same thing).

my setup is a tad bit bouncy now but that's because of my squishy-ass snow tires. otherwise it's dandy (STi struts, STi top mounts). once my azenis show up this week, all will be well.

GC's rock... your car just isn't ready for them yet.

peter
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Old 03-31-2003, 12:53 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by slater
colin,



i have been a GC customer for quite a few years now, and have always been pleased - but you have to understand the basic principles of them and then modify the rest of your suspension accordingly (imagine buying tein's or whatever coilovers, without the struts or top mounts... same thing).

my setup is a tad bit bouncy now but that's because of my squishy-ass snow tires. otherwise it's dandy (STi struts, STi top mounts). once my azenis show up this week, all will be well.



peter
So are you running 350F and 300R like I am? I was considering trying it out without the GC's (using the stock STi springs), because I haven't heard much feedback from people who have the STi's and GC's. What else can you tell us about them (sorry for the thread hijack)? -Bolster
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Old 03-31-2003, 11:05 PM   #13
slater
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bolster
So are you running 350F and 300R like I am? I was considering trying it out without the GC's (using the stock STi springs), because I haven't heard much feedback from people who have the STi's and GC's. What else can you tell us about them (sorry for the thread hijack)? -Bolster
i'm actually running them with 275F/250R springs. they're off the car now, in favor of H&Rs for the winter months... but i just put my summer wheels and tires on so the GC's will be on shortly.

they work very well with STi struts, but STi top mounts are a must (otherwise they're bouncy-bouncy).

tips:

you need to slightly file down the flange right below the threaded section on the top of the front struts to get the GC top hat to seat properly - not a big deal, took me 10 minutes with a file.

also, dust boots a GOOD idea. i think this is a major problem with full coilover setups - well, the lack of dust boots, causing dirt and crap to get in the seals, and they blow; and thus, a rebuild is in order. i got some trailmaster dust boots from www.thejeep.com for $12 for all 4 (i actually got the idea from cosworth, who had done this initially). the trailmaster dust boots are the only ones i've found readily available that fit underneath the 2.5" ID eibach ERS springs.

hope that helps.

peter
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Old 04-01-2003, 08:03 AM   #14
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Thanks- I'll order a set of those dust boots.
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Old 04-01-2003, 08:40 AM   #15
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Colin,

If you need a stiffer strut, I just sold my RS and pulled the Bridgestone/Tokiko struts out. These were used with Tein medium race springs and later with stock springs. They are much, much stiffer than stock struts and can accomidate over 1.5" lowering. They are NOT adjustable. I used them for a year on the track. I'll sell them for $250 plus shipping. With import charges from Japan, that was about the price for only one strut originally. About 10k miles on them.

jack
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Old 04-01-2003, 09:05 AM   #16
slater
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jack,

damn... i would like those just to add to my growing collection of suspension bits!

colin, you should definitely pick these up! i have a set of almost-new STi V6 struts in my garage but those are going on my girlfriend's RS.

peter
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Old 04-01-2003, 09:11 AM   #17
Jack
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Peter,

If you want them and can pick them up, I also have an unknown Corrado rear sway bar that's yours free. I acquired it with a bunch of race parts from a guy who couldn't remember if it was from his RS or his Corrado.

jack
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Old 04-01-2003, 09:35 AM   #18
slater
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jack,

cool. i will think about it today, but i would feel bad taking these away from a fellow nasioc'er in need.

oh - and thanks for the offer on the swaybar, i will take it - even if i can't pick it up for whatever reason i'll be more than happy to pay for shipping.

peter
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Old 04-01-2003, 10:04 AM   #19
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Cool.

PM me with a zip and I'll find out what it costs to ship. I just saw Vermont and always seem to think Brattleboro....

jack
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Old 04-01-2003, 11:09 AM   #20
kenchan
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i dont know how GC and other guys get away with selling
parts like this that makes the car dangerous to drive without
getting sued.

try some drop springs by eibach if you dont plan on dropping
the car too much. they seem to work well with the stock
struts for a while.
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Old 04-01-2003, 11:53 AM   #21
slater
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Quote:
Originally posted by kenchan
i dont know how GC and otehr guys get away with selling
parts like this that makes teh car dangerous to drive without
getting sued.
well, tehy recommend using upgraded struts, etc., with tehr products. tehy also sell VERY nice struts, called 'advance design', but tehy're fairly pricey (like $350/strut).

peter


EDIT: damn.. 'tehy' (x2), 'tehr', 'tehy're' . . . what teh hell? did someone switch teh keys around on my keybored?

EDIT 2: seems like someone is f-ing with t h e b o a r d . . .

Last edited by slater; 04-01-2003 at 11:58 AM.
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Old 04-01-2003, 02:18 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by kenchan
i dont know how GC and otehr guys get away with selling
parts like this that makes teh car dangerous to drive without
getting sued.
Maybe mine is the exception to the rule, but my car is quite controlable. Only on the worst pavement does it feel harsh, and that's with stock struts. I think this is most likely related to how much you drop the car (on stock struts). I wanted stiffer springs, not to drag my oil pan, so my car is at stock height. If you want to lower the car, then buy the right struts to do it. It certainly isn't GC's fault that a $400 kit doesn't do what a $1500 kit does. They merely offer you a kit that you can put on many different struts, including the stock ones. You can custom tune your suspension by selecting the right spring rates for your application and the right struts. I'm not trying to attack you, but think about what you said in the quote above: it's like saying that Vivid or Gruppe-S should be liable for selling you a turbo for $1200, but not making sure you order the correct fuel and ecu components to use it. They are leaving that part up to you, and so does GC. That's why you should gather as much info as possible (please don't take this as if I'm telling you that you're stupid, or that you didn't get enough info- someone could have misinformed you). You should call the guys at GC and talk with them about the problem- they've been good at helping me out with questions I've had. -Bolster
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